Valvoline Synpower (and others) - HTHS

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vinu_neuro

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In case, it hasn't been posted in a while, and anyone in curious.. these are the HTHS numbers just gotten from Valvoline.

That Maxlife Syn looks pretty good. But I think GC still takes the cake for 30wt (albiet at the viscous end). Synpower MST is probably the only other A3/B3 30wt oil in North America, but apparently it's sold in bulk to dealers and not available directly to the public because it's developed with the manufacturers.

Synpower:

0W/5W-20: 2.6cst
5W/10W-30: 3.0

For comparison:

Synpower Maxlife:

5W-20: 2.9
5W/10W-30 3.2/3.3

PP

0W/5W-20: 2.6cst
5W/10W-30: 3.1/3.15

PUltra:

5W-20: 2.7
5W/10W-30: 3.1/3.2

M1

0W/5W-20: 2.6/2.62
0W/5W/10W-30: 2.99/3.09/3.14
 
Thanks, but I wouldn't just judge an oil based on HT/HS.lol Most of the licensed oils are going to have near identical HT/HS #'s. Valvoline is making some really good oils these days. Their conventional 5w30 is the most shear stable out there.
 
Thanks for the research results. That Maxlife is certainly robust. Do they now call it Synpower Maxlife? Is it available anywhere? I haven't bought much oil in a couple years, still have 125 qts in basement including about 50 Maxlife Synthetic.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Thanks, but I wouldn't just judge an oil based on HT/HS.

Increasingly, I'm coming to view the base stock as being a carrier for the additive package. It has to do a decent job of providing hydrodynamic lubrication, and otherwise stay out of the way, by not creating too much drag, not oxidizing, not varnishing, etc. Increasingly, its role seems to involve a lengthening list of things its not supposed to do, and a dimishing list of things that it needs to do. The additives handle a lot of that stuff better. The UOA's for 0w20, HTHS 2.6 oils in the UOA forum on this site are almost universally stellar.
 
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HTHS isn't an important spec for people who drive their cars gently, where start-up, short-trip, resistance to fuel dilution, etc are the main criteria.

Do 20min track sessions at a time and it becomes a critical spec very quickly. The German manufacturers don't spec a minimum of 3.5cst for no reason.

So while the car that runs on a 20wt won't see any track time, I'd like to know that it's got the best protection possible whenever I beat on it when the oil is at operating temp.

Nederlander, I called Ashland and they were more than obliging. :)
 
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Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
HTHS isn't an important spec for people who drive their cars gently, where start-up, short-trip, resistance to fuel dilution, etc are the main criteria.

Do 20min track sessions at a time and it becomes a critical spec very quickly. The German manufacturers don't spec a minimum of 3.5cst for no reason.

Maybe. It's the extant "conventional wisdom". But I'd like to see some actual experimental data supporting the contention. The 3.5 HTHS requirement could just as easily be a marketing ploy. "The German's engines are so advanced and powerful that they need a special oil!" Yes, money speaks as loudly in Germany as anywhere else.

Why would a 20 minute track session squeeze all the moly, which loves extreme pressures, out from between the bearing surfaces, whereas a 3.5+ HTHS oil, only 34% more viscous under HS conditions than most 0w20's, would stand tight? It's a valid question.

Quote:
So while the car that runs on a 20wt won't see any track time, I'd like to know that it's got the best protection possible whenever I beat on it when the oil is at operating temp.

So... how can you really know that? Like I say, I'd like to see some experimental data.
 
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I'd be curious to know what the Synpower 5w40 MST is rated at? I just changed out my VW with the 2.0T FSI...hopefully it does well.
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Won't shear affect actual HT/HS?

No. Shear is a result of VII's getting cut apart. VII's are not involved in HTHS, because the VII's don't play a significant part in HTHS. That's what I meant when I said that the HTHS would probably increase with lowered temp faster than the KV did... in that post in another thread that you're avoiding responding to. ;-)

Without VII's, HTHS and KV would both correlate equally well with FE.
 
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Originally Posted By: sbergman27
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Won't shear affect actual HT/HS?

No. Shear is a result of VII's getting cut apart. VII's are not involved in HTHS, because the VII's don't play a significant part in HTHS. That's what I meant when I said that the HTHS would probably increase with lowered temp faster than the KV did... in that post in another thread that you're avoiding responding to. ;-)

Without VII's, HTHS and KV would both correlate equally well with FE.

Please see this thread: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1551988
 
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
A lot of hair splitting going on, if you ask me.

It's an interesting point here. A minor point elsewhere. Don't worry. Be happy. ;-)
 
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro

Synpower Maxlife:

5W-20: 2.9


Thanks for the info!
When did they start making an 5W-20 in the Maxlife formula?
They told me they had no plans to make a full synthetic 20 wt in the Maxlife, or is this the blend?
 
Never hurts to have the higher HTHS. If you want a King Kong HTHS get Redline Oil, typically a grade has HTHS of the next higher grade conventional. Also no sheer.
 
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Never hurts to have the higher HTHS.

Except for about 0.4% in fuel economy per 0.1 increase in the HTHS. That works out to 2+ mpg in my '88 Sprint Metro on the highway.

A valid question is... does a higher HTHS necessarily help? Folk wisdom says "yes". But is it really true today? I'd like to see Toyota/Eneos 0w20 go head to head with M1 0w40 in a duel. Take 2 Toyotas and 2 VW's. Put the Eneos 0w20 in one of each, and the M1 0w40 in the others. Run long, grueling tests on the dyno, and report the results.
 
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HTHS is not an ultimate deciding factor.

Find my last UOA of Redline 5w30.

Oil did not shear and was rock steady, but that does not mean that the oil offered to 'most' wear protection possible.
 
Originally Posted By: HondaMan
Find my last UOA of Redline 5w30.

I'm not sure if this is pertinent and helpful or not. But I figured I'd mention it.

-Steve
 
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