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#1870233 - 04/25/10 08:23 AM Combustion chamber cleaning
Patman Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 19311
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Are there any truly effective products out there that can clean the carbon out of the combustion chamber that you only need to add to your gas tank? I've added two bottles of Redline Si-1 to my Corvette in the past month but yet I still have some pinging with 91 octane gas. It goes away with 94, but our 94 up here has 10% ethanol in it (while Shell 91 has none) so I lose 2 MPG, plus it costs 3-4 cents more per liter than 91 also. Since the Vette is my daily driver, those extra costs add up.

I know that a lot of people have seen great results at removing carbon buildup by sucking Seafoam into the engine or misting in some water, but I don't want to do that for two reasons (one is that I just changed my oil to Ultra and don't want to have to change it again right away, and two is that I'm afraid to hydrolock the engine if I do it wrong)

So has anyone here found an effective carbon cleaner that you put in the tank? (even if it takes a few tankfuls worth to do it I don't mind) I believe Canadian Tire just started selling Gumout Regane up here, what do you guys think about this stuff?
_________________________
2005 Corvette (M1 5w30 & Fram Ultra)
2006 Civic EX Coupe (M1 0w20 & Fram Ultra)
2010 BMW 328i X-Drive (M1 0w40 & Mann filter)

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#1870239 - 04/25/10 08:29 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: Patman]
kr_bitog Offline


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 729
Loc: South East Asia
Are you adding 2 botles at the same tank or consecutively ? I find one bottle SI-1 only effective with less than 15 gallon, so if your tank bigger than that I would use 2 bottles at the same tank. It is the same with PI or Regane, if you need heavy cleaning do not mix the cleaner with the maximum dilution ratio(up to 20 gallon gas)

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#1870250 - 04/25/10 08:39 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: kr_bitog]
ARCOgraphite Offline


Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 8693
Loc: N.H, U.S.A.
Get out on the HW and run that pig hard and fast. Floor it third gear(MT) multiple runs ups 3000-5000 rpm. I would nix the intank stuff other than redline at OCi or every 6 month. This is the problem with overly powerfull cars on the street. Even my Yaris doesnt get used hard enough. Also look to some water wetter to help keep the cooing system effective.
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2014 Nissan Rogue S CVT, OC#0 436mi-Factory 5W30 + NISSAN
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#1870268 - 04/25/10 09:04 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: ARCOgraphite]
highmilegeguy Offline


Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 114
Loc: michigan
High reveving does not clean out the engine.

The best simple clean out technique is to get some distilled water, put it in a spray bottle, and spray into the intake while the engine is running.

This is the steam cleaning way for an engine.
And, yes, I do this on my vehicles once or twice a year.

Mechanics saw how a cylinder with a coolant leak into it became squeaky clean, thanks to the steam cleaning effect.

IMHO it does result in a smoother running engine after cleaning out much of the buildup.

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#1870273 - 04/25/10 09:10 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: kr_bitog]
Patman Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 19311
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Are you adding 2 botles at the same tank or consecutively ? I find one bottle SI-1 only effective with less than 15 gallon, so if your tank bigger than that I would use 2 bottles at the same tank. It is the same with PI or Regane, if you need heavy cleaning do not mix the cleaner with the maximum dilution ratio(up to 20 gallon gas)


I put in one bottle a month ago and one bottle last week. The Corvette has a 18.5 gallon tank, but with the bottle I put in last week I only filled the tank up to about 3/4 so that it would be a stronger concentration this time.

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#1870277 - 04/25/10 09:15 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: ARCOgraphite]
Patman Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 19311
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Get out on the HW and run that pig hard and fast. Floor it third gear(MT) multiple runs ups 3000-5000 rpm. I would nix the intank stuff other than redline at OCi or every 6 month. This is the problem with overly powerfull cars on the street. Even my Yaris doesnt get used hard enough. Also look to some water wetter to help keep the cooing system effective.


With our new "street racing" law in Ontario it makes it very hard for those of us with fast cars to go full throttle for long periods of time, as it'll easily put us way above the speed limit. So that's probably a big part of the reason why I've got more carbon buildup now.

As far as the cooling system, my coolant temperature runs a nice cool 187-190F most of the time. I have to be stuck in traffic for quite a while to get it up over 200 degrees. So my coolant temperature is not a factor in the pinging at all.

I previously had my timing set at a higher level than the stock curve, but yesterday I had a friend who has HPTuners go in and adjust that for me, and I'm actually now running 1 degree less timing than stock at the lower rpms and about 3-4 degrees less than stock at higher rpms (I don't get pinging at full throttle and high rpm though, just part throttle in the 1500-2200 rpm area)

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#1870290 - 04/25/10 09:27 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: highmilegeguy]
sunfire Offline


Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 1574
Loc: Ca, US
Originally Posted By: highmilegeguy
High reveving does not clean out the engine.

The best simple clean out technique is to get some distilled water, put it in a spray bottle, and spray into the intake while the engine is running.

This is the steam cleaning way for an engine.
And, yes, I do this on my vehicles once or twice a year.

Mechanics saw how a cylinder with a coolant leak into it became squeaky clean, thanks to the steam cleaning effect.

IMHO it does result in a smoother running engine after cleaning out much of the buildup.


To OP have you seen this thread? Might be worth a shot if all other fuel additives fail. I have tried it in my Corolla with great results... that Techron, Regane, SI-1 could not do. Looks like I am on track for mpg gains too. From 25 to maybe 27... still waiting to finish my tank after the water treatment. But already noticed the engine is smoother and a little more torque. Less noticeable rough idle... but hopefully another water injection treatment will cure that too.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1581337#Post1581337


Edited by sunfire (04/25/10 09:29 AM)
_________________________
2005 Toyota Corolla LE | 65,000 | PYB 5W-30

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#1870296 - 04/25/10 09:32 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: Patman]
jorton Offline


Registered: 07/04/03
Posts: 2784
Loc: San Antonio, TX
How difficult is it to remove the egr valve on that model? The port(s) could be obstructed.
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"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti



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#1870304 - 04/25/10 09:39 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: Patman]
hobbesnmina2001 Offline


Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 2
Loc: NY
The water spray into the intake track is a good solution, been using it since I learned that back in high school from a shop teacher that was a super mechanic. The ethanol in fuel is good not only for cleaning the chambers but keeping your injection clean. In Western NY the few stations with E85 its actually much cheaper then regular gas and mix mine in varying amounts. My Z06 loves 93 octane with 25-30% ethanol by volume mixed in! Yes it will lower the mpg because alcohols have less BTU's per gallon which defines more or less MPG. If you at least use some ethanol everyonce in a while it will help with the cleaning.
A good permanent solution for your Vette which I will be adding soon is a water/methanol or methanol injection which will give you the equivalent of race fuel when being injected and will clean the intake tract as well as the combustion chambers. It will not clean the injectors because it is not in the fuel tank or line itself.
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2003 Silverado 2500 HD
2002 Z06 Corvette
2000 Olds Alero
2006 Chevy Trailblazer

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#1870311 - 04/25/10 09:42 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: Patman]
Warstud Offline


Registered: 09/02/05
Posts: 2959
Loc: MIchigan
Just set the timing back to stock and try running the 91 octane
again to see if the pinging goes away.

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#1870315 - 04/25/10 09:43 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: jorton]
Patman Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 19311
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted By: jorton
How difficult is it to remove the egr valve on that model? The port(s) could be obstructed.


The LS1 in the Corvette does not have an EGR valve. It's got a different cam profile (than the LS1 in the Camaro/Firebird which has an EGR valve) which allows the engine to meet emissions regulations without an EGR.

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#1870316 - 04/25/10 09:44 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: Warstud]
Patman Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 19311
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted By: Warstud
Just set the timing back to stock and try running the 91 octane
again to see if the pinging goes away.


As mentioned above, the timing curve is now BELOW the stock factory settings.

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#1870354 - 04/25/10 10:15 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: Warstud]
mechtech2 Offline


Registered: 09/05/06
Posts: 19479
Loc: Chicago Area
Are there actual deposits? I mean excessive stuff?
After 2 SI 1 treatments, you should be in great shape.
Water misting is a good an cheap way to do a quick clean.
but don't simply spray it in the intake. Keep it on the other side of the MAF! Use a vacuum port.

It does not matter if the gas has ethanol or not [for this problem]. Octane is octane. Who cares how they get there?

Warstud may be right - if you have tuned this vehicle, maybe you went too far.

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#1870396 - 04/25/10 10:47 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: Warstud]
bmwtechguy Offline


Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 2526
Loc: South Carolina
I run a simple passive water/alcohol vaporizor teed into the PCV hose that goes into the base of the throttle body, feeding all cyl evenly. It was made from a new coolant overflow bottle kit for about $8. Well, actually I had to add the needle valve to adjust flow(water/alcohol bubbling in the tank) and the tee hose fitting, but it was cheap and has been very effective. I always use any 87 octane gas now with zero pinging. It took a while to achieve the no pinging as I believe that it was slowly steam cleaning the combustion chambers.

My dad bought one of these "Fort Morgan vapor jets" back in the late 70's/early 80's from some mail order outfit that sold him some slick 50 stuff previously. I guess when he saw that it would reduce preignition, he was sold on trying it out. When it came, and he saw that it was such a simple device, he made one for all of our cars- one of those handy, engineering type dads. Well, it had the side effect of increasing fuel economy as well as eliminating all pinging on cheap fuel. I have made/used them ever since on most of our cars. If you ever have ocassion to pull the cyl head of any vehicle using one, you will not find one spec of carbon anywhere in the combustion chamber and plugs stay perfectly clean as well. Yet I never have any problems with condensate in the crankcase, either. It seems to be just enough water vapor like a really humid, rainy day, to get the job done.

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#1870407 - 04/25/10 11:01 AM Re: Combustion chamber cleaning [Re: bmwtechguy]
bmwtechguy Offline


Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 2526
Loc: South Carolina
After just now googling Fort Morgan Vapor Jet, it appears that not everyone was as happy with their purchase as we were. We actaully improved the design of the one they sent us by replacing the fixed port size with a needle valve to control exactly how strongly it bubbled in the container and also how much vapor was going into the intake at the same time. Our results were and still are real, but the claims for most products are usually exaggerated in order to sell to you.

http://www.usps.com/judicial/1983deci/12-64.htm

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