First trans fluid change at 129k miles? Good/Bad?

[AaronB]

I recently purchased a 95 Buick Lesabre (3.8L series II FWD). I am going back and forth on whether to change the transmission fluid based on differing advice sources.

The car has 129k miles. Of course I changed the air filter and motor oil/filter first thing. It was driven most of its life by a girl who did little maintenance and often left the motor oil in for longer than would be advisable (often 5-7k mi on whatever a kwik lube put in for $20).

I fixed intermittent misfires with a new fuel filter (one that came off was stamped AC Delco whew! it was actually packed with sludge).

I work with a couple former GM mechanics who say the conventional wisdom is that the wear metal and particles in fluid that old actually helps the clutches grip and new fluid would likely cause slipping and transmission failure in a transmission with that many miles and no prior service at regular intervals (Their basic advice boils down to if the normal transmission fluid change intervals have been skipped by that much its worse to begin regular transmission service intervals with so many miles).

I don't know that I buy their analysis as they also advised changing all the coil packs and cam / crank sensors to fix the misfire (standard plugs/wires was done early on) - I fixed it for $12 (fuel filter) using my gut instinct, but I'm better with troubleshooting motors than transmissions.

I would like input from the forum as to their experiences and advice here.

The current fluid does not have a burnt look but does look heavy on metal and clutch particles (leaves grey pink with little orange and no brown on a white napkin when checked).

The transmission currently shifts great and runs fine and I would like to keep it that way.

If I do a fluid flush I will probably use Valvoline Maxlife dex/merc unless there is a better suggestion at a similar or better price point ($5.99/qt). The car takes 11.1 qt so even maxlife is a bit pricey imo... though I use M1 5w-30 HM or EP for motors in anything I drive so I shouldn't cheapskate out here.

Also any advice on the best way to flush/fill this transmission would be great, though I expect the google to help me here.

All feedback is welcome.

Thanks,
Aaron

 

[Bill in Utah]

I'd do drain and refills with the ATF. A few quarts at a time.

Don't worry about the OCI history, you'll be fine.

Take care, bill

 

[Turk]

Yes, change it.

 

[exranger06]

Here is a post I made in another forum regarding this topic:


The myth is old fluid has clutch material in it, and putting fresh fluid in it leaves not enough clutch material thus it starts slipping.

I have a few problems with this myth: First of all, this myth started like this: Some guy never maintains his transmission properly and never changes the fluid (BIG no-no

) and eventually he starts having problems. At this point his trans is toast from poor maintenance and nothing will save it. But he thinks “Oh maybe I should change the fluid and it’ll fix it.” So he gets the fluid changed, his trans dies shortly after so he thinks it must be from the fluid, not the years of neglect.

Second of all, the ONLY place you want clutch material is on the clutches. Period. You do not want it floating around in your fluid. Over time, clutch material WILL wear off the clutches and will eventually get bad enough to make the trans slip. This is INEVITABLE and is the reason NO automatic can possibly live forever. But one thing is for certain: You DO NOT want clutch material floating around in your fluid. So change your fluid frequently and keep it fresh. If you change fluid on an old transmission and it begins slipping immediately, your trans was already toast in the first place.

If your trans is still working perfectly fine, changing fluid WILL NOT HURT IT!! Like I said, if your trans ides shortly after, it was already dead to begin with. Also, just because the trans is working fine, do not think that you don’t have to ever change the fluid. Change trans fluid every 30-40k miles, whether the fluid “looks” good or not. You wouldn’t wait until your motor oil turns to sludge before thinking about changing it would you?

And FINALLY: Transmission flushes are NOT a bad thing. The term “flush” is pretty misleading. Flush machines don’t actually “flush” your trans per se, all they do is exchange the fluid. Here’s how it works: Your trans has a pump and a cooler. When your driving, the trans pumps fluid through the cooler. When you get a flush, they hook up the cooler lines to the flush machine. Then they start the engine. Once again, the trans uses it own pump to pump the fluid through the cooler lines, just as it normally does. But, all of the fluid getting pumped out gets dumped into a tank on the machine. All the machine does is make sure the fresh fluid gets pumped back into the trans at the same rate it’s coming out. There isn’t any actual “flushing.” It’s a perfectly safe method and is really the only way to change all the fluid in the trans at once.


Change fluid regularly!!!! I have 151k miles on my A4LD and it shifts beautifully. I don't think it would've made anywhere near this long if I neglected fluid changes. I already dropped the pan and changed the filter on my Ranger once when it had only 22k miles on it. I also added another in-line filter to help keep material/debris out of the fluid.

http://www.therangerstation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=647837#post647837

 

[ZZman]

I think it is the flushes and cleaning fluids used that cause most problems. Just change the fluid and filter.

 

[beast3300]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
I think it is the flushes and cleaning fluids used that cause most problems. Just change the fluid and filter.


X2, that is what I was just gonna say. Do a pan drop, use a GM filter. Most of the time the gasket is reusable, just wipe off with a rag.

Refill it with any brand Dex 6. It should take from 7 to 8 qts.

 

[AaronB]

I take it that a generic Autozone or O'Reilly's filter would be a bad idea? (Autozone is made by champion I think not sure on O'Reilly's)

Also what about the fluid in the TC if I just do a pan drop and new fluid? Dex 6 fluid sounds like a good idea since its backwards compatible fluid.

I'll be doing this myself and I think I'll take the advice on not using flush chemicals.

 

[sciphi]

A generic filter will work just fine.

Dex-VI will serve you well. It's even available at Wal-Mart for less than $4 a quart.

 

[The_Eric]

I think the biggest problem with a flush that not everybody takes the time to actually change the filter.

 

[miraCRD]

I would personally NOT go with Dex VI in this vehicle. I'd stick with what you said in the original post...Valvoline Maxlife Dex/Merc.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: AaronB
... the conventional wisdom is that the wear metal and particles in fluid that old actually helps the clutches grip and new fluid would likely cause slipping...

There's a big hole in this "conventional wisdom".

If new fluid would cause slipping, why doesn't the transmission slip when the vehicle is new and has new fluid?

Conversely, if the particles help the clutches grip, why isn't new fluid formulated with such particles?

Good post by exranger06.

I say ignore this myth and give the transmission a pan drop and complete fluid exchange.
Oh, and

 

[sw99]

I did the pan drop and drained the Torque Converter at @ 117K in my F150. Runs better then ever now. I also installed a deeper pan with a drain plug. Now I do frequent drain and fills.

 

[daves66nova]

When i first bought my used 95 camry a year ago, it had a LOT of what looked like clutch and metallic glittery stuff in the atf.The oil smelled burnt and a darker brown color.I still went ahead and changed all the oil by disconnecting one line,turning on the car, and letting as much oil to drain out as possible.I'd then turn it off,add more oil and run and drain again.I kept doing this until i got new fluid coming out of the line.So far i've put around 25,000 miles on it and NOTHING has happened to the trans.I don't even know if it has a filter or not. Heck, i didn't even drop the pan,ever!

 

[pbm]

I'd go to Walmart and buy 2 gallons of ST ATF (for vehicles which formally used Dexron 3) for $9.77 each. I'd pick up a tranny filter. I'd drop the pan, clean the magnets and pan, install the new filter and refill with the ST ATF. I would AVOID any type of power flush.

 

[ryland]

I think this myth comes from the south. I was changing my ATF when my father in law was visiting from texas and he thought I was an idiot for messing with the ATF. According to him "thats just not a fluid you want to mess with" he then went on to tell me about some guy who knows some guy who told him that its bad to change and only a dealer should. Also that if its been too long then you have to just leave it or changing will kill it. I dont see how getting old fluid out could be a bad thing?

 

[Kaboomba]

TO O/P:

If I were you I would:

1. Do pan-off filter change and inspection, clean out the pan and refill trans with any ol Dex VI, syn or not
2. Add a filter on the cooler line; could be Magnefine or other
3. Use a flush additive (the only products I would consider would be the new Amsoil Flush, LubeGard, or AutoRx) as directed
4. Do a cooler line flush with premium fluid of your choice Merc V or Dex VI.
5. Replace the in-line filter after 1K mi

THE LOGIC: Remove biggest and baddest $%&^ from pan and filter. Use premium flush additive to loosen and suspend remaining muck. Use the inline filter to catch the worst of that muck, then flush the fluid to get rid of the fine stuff and varnish. Over the next 1K mi the in-line filter will continue to pick up junk that is shed as the trans cleans out all its nooks n crannies.

Kaboomba

 

[beast3300]

Dex/Merc Maxlife will work, however it's a one size fits most fluid. So it will have additives not required by every application. I rather go with GM's recommendation that Dex 6 is the supported fluid to back spec Dex 3.

A GM O.E. filter is made by Filtran and is a much higher quality than ones made in the People's Republic (most other's brands).

 

[citationxeleven]

Flush it, fails replace it, 3800 is an excellent engine and transmissions aren't hard to find. My 94 Bonneville had 96k on original fluid, I changed it 3 times over 90 k miles and never had any problems.