A Reason to AVOID Top Tier Gas?

[Bill in Utah]

I found out today that my gas station where I buy 90% of my gas went to 10% ethanol for "clean air". My MPG has been dropping the last few months to a point its close to 10% over my normal MPG.

They put on new stickers proclaiming the "clean" mix now being dispensed.

Time to find a new gas station. I've been buying gas there for 25 years. Told them so this AM and have sent a email to the company head quarters.

Bill

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I found out today that my gas station where I buy 90% of my gas went to 10% ethanol for "clean air". My MPG has been dropping the last few months to a point its close to 10% over my normal MPG.

They put on new stickers proclaiming the "clean" mix now being dispensed.

Time to find a new gas station. I've been buying gas there for 25 years. Told them so this AM and have sent a email to the company head quarters.

Bill

A laudible sentiment, but you're fighting an uphill battle, and in some places (here, for example), an entirely futile one. You simply can't get pure gasoline here anymore...

 

[mikered30]

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=FL

Has a list of E0 stations, but they are all user entries, and subject to change/fraud.

 

[addyguy]

I don't believe 'pure gas' exists anymore.

'Pure' gas has almost been 'redefined' as E10, b/c of how prevalent it is. 'Ethanol' gas now refers to E85, for FFV's.

Even statons that think they are getting 100% gas, probably aren't.

 

[Bill in Utah]

I just called Flying J HQ (they have truck stops here in Utah and HQ is here) and they sell gas with NO ethanol. Durning the winter months in some counties they do but post it on the pump when it is.

When down to the local station and no stickers. Asked the manager there and he said the same.

I've got a new place to buy gas.

I refuse to pay the same price for gas at where I used to buy it and get worst MPG.

And I drive enough that it matters.

Bill

 

[jaj]

My understanding of the Top Tier rules are that "Top Tier" approved gas has to PERFORM AS WELL AS "Base Fuel" that contains 8% to 10% Ethanol. The fuel being approved doesn't have to contain Ethanol in order to perform as well as fuel that does.

It's confusing wording in the standard.

 

[elwaylite]

Here's a question along the lines of more detergent vs less:

If you take a Pilot,T&A, etc... generic hwy off ramp gas station thats running the same base fuel as everyone else, with the minimum EPA detergent amount, will you get better gas mileage? Meaning, does the addition of 2x to 4x the minimum (shell fuels) help cleaning but decrease mpg's due to more detergent. I just wonder how more detergent in fuel effects economy, and if the EPA minimum isn't high enough?

Could this be why you can see dramatic MPG differences between gas stations?

 

[SteveSRT8]

well, if there's no ethanol you can expect more mpg. Kills my mpg for sure.

But if you're comparing non-alcohol "enriched" fuel it will depend on your cars calibrations.

 

[elwaylite]

I've found a few stations close by me that are ethanol free, and I verified with a phone call. Will use them for all my in town gas until a sticker shows up.

 

[gogozy]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Shell is top tier gas here in Canada and their premium has no ethanol in it at all. I get 10% better MPG (21-22 vs 19-20 average) using their premium versus Sunoco's Ultra 94 which has 10% ethanol here.

that's a nice find. any other gas station in Ontario that contain no ethanol?

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I found out today that my gas station where I buy 90% of my gas went to 10% ethanol for "clean air". My MPG has been dropping the last few months to a point its close to 10% over my normal MPG.

They put on new stickers proclaiming the "clean" mix now being dispensed.

Time to find a new gas station. I've been buying gas there for 25 years. Told them so this AM and have sent a email to the company head quarters.

Bill

A laudible sentiment, but you're fighting an uphill battle, and in some places (here, for example), an entirely futile one. You simply can't get pure gasoline here anymore...


Same here. E10 year round by law. My MPG is bad enough without the ethanol [censored] dropping it more. When E10 arrived here in 2006 the average MPG in my vehicle dropped over 2 MPG( 2005 5.3L Silverado ). I am sure it explains why the MPG in my 08 5.7L Ram w/ MDS is actually worse than the MPG from my 04 5.7L Ram w/o MDS and why the MPG in my 07 5.3L Silverado w/AFM was considerably worse than the MPG from the 05 5.3L Silverado w/o AFM( pre E10 ). Those older vehicles ran on regular gas without the ethanol [censored] in there.

 

[Seguino]

Originally Posted By: gib
Originally Posted By: Eddie
By calculation E10 will give 4.3% less mileage.

Yeah, and I've heard other people report significant gains running ethanol-free gas. There are a couple stations on the island that sell it so I did some testing of my own. The result for me was that e-free gas gave statically indistinguishable MPGs from the standard E10. So, go figure. heh

Before Jan 1 there was only one brand of gas here that had E10. I found absolutely no difference in performance or mileage using it vs E0.

 

[wiswind]

From my understanding, companies have to pay to be listed as "Top Tier" as well as pass the testing requirements.

Also, as has been mentioned.....fuel will vary in different areas....some areas REQUIRE E10, some don't.

The requirements for labeling at the pump also varies from state to state.
Not all states require that the pump idendify ethanol in the fuel, while others do require it.

Many gasoline stations get the SAME BASE gasoline.....no-name stations and Brand name stations.......even "TOP TIER" rated stations can get the SAME base fuel......even delivered by the SAME tanker truck....same day same load.
HOWEVER.....the tanker truck has a number of different compartments.......various grades (regular, premium) and the "blend" for each station.

The difference in the fuels will be the additive package......which will vary between stations.

So the no-name station may be selling the same base fuel......but you do not know what additive package they have.....although law requires a minimum blend.
The Top Tier or brand name station will be selling the same base fuel, but with their own proprietary additive blended into the fuel.

 

[JustinH]

All the stations in this area (Western New York) have 10% ethanol on every pump.

We also have never had any local TOP TIER stations. They are all out of state.

Buffalo, NY has some of the highest gas prices in america, right up there with Hawaii.

I don't drive enough to go hunting around for a new gas station. I actually pay about 5-6 cents more per gallon to gas up at a Mobil station that is a block from my house.

When driving a Saturn, the savings are minimal anyways, so I'll pay the fools luxury tax.

 

[ffracer]

Originally Posted By: JustinH
All the stations in this area (Western New York) have 10% ethanol on every pump.

We also have never had any local TOP TIER stations. They are all out of state.

Buffalo, NY has some of the highest gas prices in america, right up there with Hawaii.

I don't drive enough to go hunting around for a new gas station. I actually pay about 5-6 cents more per gallon to gas up at a Mobil station that is a block from my house.

When driving a Saturn, the savings are minimal anyways, so I'll pay the fools luxury tax.


I live in the Finger Lakes and all NY state gasoline is E10 since 2007 by law. The only brands in Western NY that are very common to see that have above EPA minimum additives are: Sunoco and Mobil, and the sprinking of Gulfs. Neither are top-tier, but supposedly ExxonMobil will pass, but chooses not to participate from a political perspective, don't know about Sunoco, but they have advertised siginficantly beyond EPA requirements for years.

 

[ted s]

not true you can still get e-0 in ny except in nyc metro area.

 

[MonumentOiler]

10% ethanol requirements are less about pollution control and more about agribusiness/Farm lobby payoffs. We pay more per gallon for less total energy.

I wish we could just write them a check instead of the convoluted system that requires my car to suffer from reduced range and performance.

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: cchase
I hesitate to mention this because I rarely put any stock in peoples mpg claims online, but...

I switched over from "whatever's cheapest" (usually Mobil) to Shell 2 tanks ago and with the same driving style, speed, and routes went up 3 mpg on my GTO (premium). It's enough to keep me sticking with the Shell.




That might be the result of summer fuel. Gas in summer gives better mileage than winter gas. Your best mileage should be around July and August.

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


1) Top Tier is simply a standard. At least you know it meets certain minimums.

2) Extensive dyno work showed me that in my area the BP had the lowest knock values, thus greatest HP.



1) I think it is mainly for fuel injector and valve cleanliness. If the injectors get dirty, the smog goes up. The Top Tier fuel more for smog than engine performance.

2) That is good to know. Unfortunately we don't have any more BP stations around here.

 

[Garak]

They have a rather unique rule in this province. Of all fuel dispensed, there must be a minimum average of 7.5% ethanol dispensed. There doesn't have to be a 7.5% in all grades.

So, the companies that wish to offer non-ethanol fuel do so by offering that in premium only. E10 is regular, which almost everyone buys, so they easily exceed their 7.5% average.

Shell here, and reportedly the Co-op, do not have ethanol in their premium. Other than that, I can't say. On my vehicles, I haven't noticed huge differences, at least not anything statistically significant. I take far too many different routes of travel and encounter too many different types of traffic to be able to accurately gauge. When I'm on the highway, there always has to be a 40 mph wind to screw everything up, too.