B-12 Chemtool Flush Writeup

[NMBigfoot02]

Hey guys. This is my first post, and I thought I'd post a writeup covering the B-12 flush I did this past weekend on my car. Mods, if this is not the appropriate section, please move it.

Background:

The car is a 1997 Nissan pickup 2.4L 4cyl with approx 125K miles. It was bought used by my Dad at approx. 30K, and he drove it with and OCI of 5K miles using Castrol Syntec 10W30 and Fram filters. I started driving and maintaining the truck at 75K miles and also used Castrol Syntec and Fram filters, but I switched it to 5W30 instead of 10W30.

The truck has a KA24E engine, which some of you may know is afflicted with a timing chain rattle. This rattle is caused by a couple of reasons: 1. the chain tensioner or associated parts are broken, allowing the chain to rattle or 2. the tensioner is not actuating due to low oil pressure. I suspect in my own case that oil pressure is the problem since it only rattles when the engine is cold. Once it warms, the rattle goes away.

To rectify this, I decided to try a B-12 Chemtool flush along with a higher grade oil and filter. The oil I selected was Pennzoil Ultra 5W30 and a ST3682 Supertech filter. For the flush, I used a 15W40 dino oil combined with the B-12 and another ST filter.

I first drained out the old oil which had approx. 3500 miles on it. I grabbed a sample as it was draining. Since it was so dark after such a short OCI, I decided to replace the PCV valve as well.

Next, I replaced the Fram with the ST and fiiled the engine with the 15W40 and the Chemtool. I let the engine idle at 1500 RPM for 30 min (as suggested by member JohnBrowning) and then immediately drained the flush oil. I also grabbed a sample of this.

I then installed the other ST filter and filled up the engine with the PU. As part of this, I cut open the filters with a hacksaw.

Something I noticed about the flush oil: it smelled very strongly of Chemtool and it thinned the oil quite a bit. Also, there was a lot more “seditment” in the bottom of the flush oil than I expected. It was also a lot darker than I thought it would be.

In any case, I’m not sure how well this actually cleaned my engine. The rattle has gone away after startup, but that may only be due to new oil and filter. I tired grabbing some before and after pics through my fill hole, but they look almost the same to me.

My plan going forward is to monitor the oil closely to make sure that there’s no residual Chemtool breaking down the oil and to continue with the higher grade oil/filter to see if things improve.

In any case, I want to thank all the members here for making this site a great place to learn about oil. I have pics that I will post up later today.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Good luck with this, I might go for a shorter OCI to remove whatever chemtool might be left in the oil galleys.

 

[addyguy]

No offense, but if this vehicle has seen a life of mostly using Castrol Syntec oil, which is a synthetic, at 5k miles, then there wouldn't have been much, if anything, to clean up with the Chemtool.

As for the Pennzoil Ultra, yeah, it seems to be a good oil on paper, but it's not such a 'step up' from Syntec that will actuall make much of a difference.

Any 'effect' you will see from this is just a placebo, and not a real change....

 

[97tbird]

why are you using 5k OCIs with syn. oil, I wonder...

I run my Motorcraft 5w/30 (syn. blend?) for about 6-7k miles in my tbird with mixed hwy and short trip driving, and never NEEDED a flush, but i did one for the 1st time with the tbird @ around 140k miles using Lubeguard flush (for peace of mind mostly)- I am hoping with that many miles, there would be something to clean - (now on the rinse phase, and the engine feels a BIT quieter than before)...

Here's the ongoing thread on that:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1808423&page=1

 

[rshaw125]

Use Pennzoil Plat and a better filter. Like a Purolator Pure one.
Run for 5,000 oil changes and that engine will be clean and last a long time.

 

[97tbird]

again, if the 3k oil changes with regular is bee-ess, why would 5k with full syn oil make sense? waste of $$, IMO.

 

[J. A. Rizzo]

Originally Posted By: NMBigfoot02
The truck has a KA24E engine, which some of you may know is afflicted with a timing chain rattle. This rattle is caused by a couple of reasons: 1. the chain tensioner or associated parts are broken, allowing the chain to rattle or 2. the tensioner is not actuating due to low oil pressure. I suspect in my own case that oil pressure is the problem since it only rattles when the engine is cold. Once it warms, the rattle goes away.


The oil pressure goes down as the engine warms up and the oil thins out, so if oil pressure was the problem, it should be better at cold startup, right? The flow will be lower if the pressure is higher, so maybe it's a function of pressure and flow rather than just pressure. Or maybe parts are just worn and as they heat up and expand, the gaps close up enough to quiet the rattle.

 

[NMBigfoot02]

Sorry I should have mentioned that Dad ran it at an OCI of 5k, whereas I started running it at an OCI of 7.5K. Still not a long OCI, but I think the real problem is that the vehicle had the original PCV valve installed. I talked to Dad and found that he never changed it, and I knew that I hadn't(oversight on my part.) So even though it wasn't an extended OCI the oil was getting dirtier faster than normal.

 

[NMBigfoot02]

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
Good luck with this, I might go for a shorter OCI to remove whatever chemtool might be left in the oil galleys.


I intend to keep a close eye on the oil condition just because of this.

 

[NMBigfoot02]

Originally Posted By: J. A. Rizzo
Originally Posted By: NMBigfoot02
The truck has a KA24E engine, which some of you may know is afflicted with a timing chain rattle. This rattle is caused by a couple of reasons: 1. the chain tensioner or associated parts are broken, allowing the chain to rattle or 2. the tensioner is not actuating due to low oil pressure. I suspect in my own case that oil pressure is the problem since it only rattles when the engine is cold. Once it warms, the rattle goes away.


The oil pressure goes down as the engine warms up and the oil thins out, so if oil pressure was the problem, it should be better at cold startup, right? The flow will be lower if the pressure is higher, so maybe it's a function of pressure and flow rather than just pressure. Or maybe parts are just worn and as they heat up and expand, the gaps close up enough to quiet the rattle.


It's possible, but since I've done the flush/change, the noise is now only momentarily at startup, if at all, so the combination of new oil with a flush did something. Whether or not the flush did anything, that's hard to say.

 

[NMBigfoot02]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
No offense, but if this vehicle has seen a life of mostly using Castrol Syntec oil, which is a synthetic, at 5k miles, then there wouldn't have been much, if anything, to clean up with the Chemtool.

As for the Pennzoil Ultra, yeah, it seems to be a good oil on paper, but it's not such a 'step up' from Syntec that will actuall make much of a difference.

Any 'effect' you will see from this is just a placebo, and not a real change....


I realize that, but I have no maintenance records for how the engine was serviced prior to my Dad buying it. It had 30K miles on it when he got it. So this is kind of a "just in case" kind of thing.

Plus, the real motivation to do this was to try a cheaper solution to tearing off the front cover and replacing all the timing parts. My plan is to replace the timing parts if the noise continues when the engine is warm.

 

[NMBigfoot02]

Ok, as promised, here are the pics. Beware: they are large, so I've tacked them on as thumbnails.

Setup:




Old oil(3.5K miles):


Old oil sediment:


Flush oil sediment(15W40+Chemtool):


Flush oil:


Fram filter (3.5K miles):
















Supertech:










And finally the before pic:


And the after:

 

[ccs v2.0]

Before doing a teardown, try a better filter with a solid, silicone ADBV. It may be that the problem is a simple as that.

 

[ahoier]

Good write-up, but I was under the impression that Berryman removed the "crankcase flush" directions from their B-12 CHEMTOOL cans for a reason. At least that's my thought, I read quite a bit of posts on here and other forums where people used B-12 CHEMTOOL "previously" but for some reason the crankcase usage directions have been removed from the bottle.

 

[sw99]

I did a B12 flush a few weeks ago on the Subi. Made a mistake though. I warmed the engine and tried dumping it in while running. Don't try this on a Subaru...

The way the Subaru engine is designed is not conducive to this method. I should have warmed it up poured it in and waited for it to settle into the oil for 20 minutes and then started. I believe that the B12 sat on top of the engine and set off my check engine light and all sorts of other things. The engine bucked and stumbled for the entire 15 minutes I let it idle. I ended up have to unhook the battery over night to clear the check engine light. After changing the oil, it ran perfect.

Oil was nasty and reeked of B12. Looks like it did a great job though. I have been doing a pretty consistent substitution of MMO over the past fer OCI's also.

 

[ionbeam22]

The emissions system probably did not like all the fumes comming out of the crank case, via the PCV valve. Probably confused the engine timing as well, since the B12 chemtool is full of very high octane ingredients (e.g toluene, acetone, etc).

And of course, Berryman removed the crankcase flushing instructions from the can, and probably for a reason. I would sooner use Seafoam for doing this sort of thing since it contains some lubricant oil in addition to solvents.

 

[demarpaint]

As others mentioned IIRC B-12 Chemtool is no longer suggested as an engine flush. I doubt it will do any harm though.

I would not have filled the engine with PU immediately after the flush oil and filter were changed. Residual flush oil is still in the engine. I would have used a cheap dino oil, and filter for a short OCI. When that cheap oil/filter was changed I would then fill with PU and a good filter and return to my normal OCI's. JMO

 

[daman]

I used B12 last year on a new car i picked up,dumped 4qts of 15w40 HDEO and a bottle of B12, DOVE it 100 miles keeping the rpm's low then dumped oil and B12,refilled with clean oil ran 100 miles then dumped again,lots of crud in the filters,did some sort of cleaning.

car still lives today.

 

[SuperDave456]

I have used this stuff for years in my car's gas tank. My first car was a 1983 Ford LTD, I used B-12 to clean up the carb and ran a can of it every few tanks.
I have used it in several fuel injected vehicles with no noticeable results, although with most "fuel system cleaners" there is very little if any before and after "difference".

I know of one guy who used it as a flush. He bought a used truck, changed the oil. After 1000 miles he drained the filter, put in a can of B-12 and ran it for 15 minutes at idle.
After that he changed the oil and filter to the cheapest stuff he could find and drove around the neighborhood to get it hot and well circulated.
He drained that off and went with another cheap oil and filter for 3,000 miles.
It is VERY strong stuff.

I have used the B-12 air-sol can for cleaning Carbs and other tough stuff and it is an EXTREMELY effective cleaner.

 

[NMBigfoot02]

[censored] looks like some of my pics aren't showing up. Is there any way to edit posts? I don't see a button for it.