Excessive amounts of metal on magnetic plug.

[friendly_jacek]

Here is the deal.

I have used magnetic oil plugs in my cars for a couple of years.
Usually only small amounts of gray fuzz on the plug.
I just changed engine oil in my 2003 Corolla with 63000 miles.
This time way more of the magnetic gray debris. Several times more than usual.
Comparable to that in long drain in diff. The texture is typical and similar to graffite.
Very fine particles (10 um estimate based on microscope image). Clearly iron.

5000 miles, 6 months interval, 70% city driving, 30% highway. 10W30 YBP oil. Purolator classic filter.
I opened oil filter with no surprises, small amounts of small carbon particles in the bottom of the filter.

The only things that were different this time:
PYB oil (previously QS peak), slightly more hwy driving (it's usually a city car), 5000 miles vs 4000 miles typical, Chevron 100% gas in the last several tanks (usually BP with 10% ethanol),
daughter learning to drive with permit (she drives gently though), oil was between full and empty rather than full.

No problems with the car or engine. No oil consumption. Now, this may be a pseudo problem,
considering that most people don't use magnetic plugs.
Any ideas? Could it be slightly lower oil level? Why? Hotter oil?

 

[Eddie]

Maybe YB cleaned up some junk?

 

[StevieC]

Did you forget to clean it the last time?

Do a couple of cheap UOA's and monitor. Could just be some junk stuck in a bearing causing a bit of excess wear that will clear up soon or has already...

 

[JohnBrowning]

I do not know that I would place much stock in visual accumulation on magnetic drain plug as measurement of wear of key parts. The problem with magnetic drain plugs is that they skew your UOA number one and number too you have no clue where the iron is coming from? It could be from the block,the rings,the came shaft and we have no clue because we do not have all the metals in the UOA in their ratio that would point us inthe right direction. It could be cleaning but I doubt it. QS and PYB are owned by the same company and I am guessing they use the same additive chemistry in each product even though they do not market them the same way.

I rember reading about how they could tell if Jiffy lubes where useing PYB or QS by a tracer agent which I suspect is just the chemistry of their additive package not so much a true tracer in the product just to make sure itis their's. For instance what ever is in the chemistry on PYB and PP that we do not see in $20 UOA that is responable for the cleaning is probably what they look for to tell if it is their product being used if it has a unique chemical signature. They do not advertise that QS has the same additive or ability because they do not want people to know that they are owned by the same parent company. Most companies do not want the general public knowing who owns what. This way if you have some knuckle head that thinks PYB cause's slude but QS does not he will keep buying the QS. If he found out that PYB and QS where owned by the same people he might stop buying QS and they don ot want that. So they market the products drasticly differently to conceal their ownership of both companies you follow me. It does not though make sense especialy in the cheap dino market to make two different additive packages when one will work for both as the cost for R&D is high for such things.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Did you forget to clean it the last time?

Do a couple of cheap UOA's and monitor. Could just be some junk stuck in a bearing causing a bit of excess wear that will clear up soon or has already...



No, I did not forget to clean the plug.

Bearing wear is not an issue here as we are talking about magnetic particles. I suspect cylinder bore or valvetrain.

Besides, we have oil filters to prevent "some junk stuck in a bearing."

 

[friendly_jacek]

Some pictures.

I did not take a picture of the plug before wiping it, but it looked similar to this:

This is the metal debris on paper towel (most of it anyway):

Doesn't look like a lot of metal but enough to lift the paper towel with HD magnet:

This is the metal debris under microscope (x200 mag):

Incidentally, the microscope image looks almost identical to graphite. I estimated the particle size at less than 10 um (except for a few up to 50 um). I understand that graphite particle size is less than 5-10 um. This is obviously below the filtration capability of regular filter.

Now, I refilled with "winter" oil (5W30 Durablend) to the max level and will compare in the spring.

Edit: It just occurred to me there may be one more reason for increased wear. When I replaced air filter a couple of months ago, old one has deteriorated rubber gasket. I did not think of this much at that time, but maybe there was increased contamination?

 

[Nick R]

You should do a UOA of the oil if you still have it.

 

[jstutz]

i kinda had the same experience with different oils. i have run M1 in my blazer for 175k miles and after 7k miles it always has a little metal fuzz. Not much just a little. I switched to QS Syn and after 7k, no fuzz at all. Very suprised by this but i know what ill be using from now on...

 

[friendly_jacek]

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that lower oil levels were harmful in this case. After that run, I noticed oil consumption started (fortunately it's slow and I'm monitoring closely).

Now, I remembered that some time in 2006 1ZZ-FE engines were equipped with new dipsticks featuring 10 mm higher oil levels.
Also, I came across Toyota's internal document advising replacing dipsticks with newer style (with higher oil levels) every time engine is rebuilt or replaced. I guess Toyota realized that the old oil levels were not sufficient. Too bad there was never a recall or Tsb.

I retrospect, my oil level in the last OCI being in the second quartile was at or slightly below the new oil levels. Not too bad but clearly could be better.

Maybe this is the missing link explaining why some 1ZZ-FE developed oil consumption and oil starvation while some did not.

 

[ChiTDI]

Does daughter learning to drive operate the car when you're not around?

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
Does daughter learning to drive operate the car when you're not around?


thats my guess too.

I doubt it was low oil level you have to be 1-2qt's low for it to be an issue unless you are driving up a steep incline/overheating the oil.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
Does daughter learning to drive operate the car when you're not around?


Nope, she has a permit only and is good about driving with me or my wife. She does nothing crazy. The car is automatic, so no issues with engine lugging. As a matter of fact, I drove much worse at her age (it was manual car though and it took me a while to master the clutch).

 

[Rand]

In that case I'd chalk it upto a one time event.. if it keeps reoccurring you might want to take action.

It didnt really seem that excessive to me.

I've opened up a manual transmission before and there was at least 10x that amount(which was excessive)

If it reoccurs might want to at least get a uoa done.. to rule out some possibilities.

 

[friendly_jacek]

A follow up. Very little metal on magnet (practically none, as it used to be) in the next 5000 miles with 5W30 Durabland. I kept oil levels close to full all times (OK, almost all times). It took a total of ~0.75 qt to top off.

I narrowed to 3 possibilities: defective batch of oil last summer (unlikely, but will know later as I'm using it again), problem with air filter, or detrimental effect of lowish oil levels.

Will monitor more and keep you posted.

The bottom line: the magnetic drain is a must for true BITOG nerd.

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
The bottom line: the magnetic drain is a must for true BITOG nerd.

Agreed! Thanks for the update.