Composition of Marvel Mystery Oil

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http://www.turtlewax.com/res/msds/MM010-4.pdf

I get tired of folks on here ignoring the fact that MMO has chlorinated solvents in it. They are chlorinated aromatics, by the way, and are very strong, polar solvents. They also combust to give trace quantities of HCl which is why MMO is such a good scavenger of lead oxide in engines burning leaded gas. When I pointed out to someone on here that his oil filter gasket stuck to the metal of his block because he had wet it with MMO, I got the "its just naphthenic solvent" response. Folks, it is NOT just an aliphatic solvent. Please go to the MSDS and understand what is in this. I think it is a good product and a decent cleaner but be aware of what it is you are using!
 
Mmmm...polar chlorinated solvents....

Must be that's why it works fairly well in my gas to keep things clean.
 
Thanks for the info.

With a flash point of 128F I would think it would just burn away in the first few hundred miles when added to crankcase oil
 
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Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Thanks for the info.

With a flash point of 128F I would think it would just burn away in the first few hundred miles when added to crankcase oil


You would think so in theory. I was surprised to see that after adding 1/2qt to my brother's Taurus, it's only burned 1/4qt in 3500 miles. Another Bro's Lancer is using oil at its normal pace with 1/2qt as well.
 
I am not very knowledgeable. What does that mean in the real world? Been using 16 oz. to 1 quart MMO in my Saturn since last fall. Most of the time at beginning of oil change. I use 1 quart per 800 miles or more top off oil. I keep using MMO since car has never run stronger and trouble free. At 160,000 miles on car I plan on keeping it another 4 years. I read a lot of concerns about MMO, but have never found real data on actual damage. Thanks.
 
Before using MMO in my engine, I searched the net for any threads or posts where someone had any proof that MMO damaged there engine, I never found anything, it works for me and I will keep using it.
 
The worst side-effect of using MMO comes when it is used in oil. The acids created/used increase the rate at which TBN decreases.
 
Don't think I am badmouthing MMO. far from it. It has been used in aircraft engines and obviously folks here find it very useful. Just be aware of what is in it. The quick drop in TBN is indicative of the HCl production from burning off any chlorinated material. But these same solvents are great at dissolving crud and baked on deposits.
 
For me, the positive effects outweigh negative ones at this point. I think it may be cleaning my ring packs. If I had time I would do a compression test. Did one several years back, so I have a baseline to reference.
 
I borrowed this from another thread, I've pasted this into a few threads before HTH. I would follow the suggested OCI for a vehicle and not run MMO if you plan on extending an OCI beyond what the mfg suggests.

70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil)
- It is a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well. [Naphthenic oils have more solvency and are more polar (they are attracted to metal more), but oxidize faster.

29% Mineral Spirits
- Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.

38 parts per million (ppm) Boron
- AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant

900 ppm Phosporous
- AW/EP agent

1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.

Red Dye - for the color
- well this one just colors the stuff
 
The chlorinated stuff is 0-1% of MMO. Whether it flashes off or not can't be measured with a dip stick. If it converted to acid the TBN in a non HDEO oil should handle it.

Saturn owners don't have much choice. It's MMO, blue smoke, or the machine shop, and sometimes it's the machine shop anyways.
 
Funny, all of the UOA's i've ever seen with MMO used seemed to hold up quite well. If this was a TBN killer, it would've shown up - surely we would've noticed something by now.
 
Originally Posted By: Scooter_man
Funny, all of the UOA's i've ever seen with MMO used seemed to hold up quite well. If this was a TBN killer, it would've shown up - surely we would've noticed something by now.


It does. You won't find any UOAs with MMO that have a TBN as high as a comparable UOA.
 
Originally Posted By: Scooter_man
Funny, all of the UOA's i've ever seen with MMO used seemed to hold up quite well. If this was a TBN killer, it would've shown up - surely we would've noticed something by now.


I wouldn't call it a TBN killer. It does seem to lower TBN in UOA reports, although the wear metals and UOA reports on this site are quite good with the addition of MMO.

MMO is not recommended to be used for extended drain intervals. In fact on their site they suggest to follow the mfg OCI intervals only. If you plan on running an extended OCI and want to use MMO add it for the last 500-1000 miles of the OCI.
 
When mixed with engine oil, somehow the MMO does not evaporate as quickly as it should.
I wondered about this, too. And I expected it to evaporate. But the oil level did not go down that i could see with my 16 ounces MMO mixed in.
 
Also note that since I put this together, I have found out the Phosphorous is Tricresyl Phosphate, an organophosphate - a very, very good AW/EP additive.

See the link below for details:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricresyl_phosphate

There have been many studies on the effectiveness of TCP, and I have not found anything that surpasses it in EP friction reduction and anti-wear - and it is very complementary to ZDDP as it works in the higher temp range where ZDDP fails.

It is also very good at cleaning up varnish (in addition the to mineral spirits)

TCP is what gives MMO the lead scavenging, not the dichlorobenzenes. Also note the link below - that it is stated that the TCP (organophosphates) is the main ingredient that prevents corrosion from chlorinated hydrocarbons (dichlorobenzenes) as noted below.

"Oil-soluble organophosphates, with or without zinc, have excellent high-pressure and antiwear properties, and provide corrosion protection especially in presence of chlorinated hydrocarbons. ZDDP starts decomposing at 130-170 °C, while the activation temperature of TCP typically exceeds 200 °C. Their reaction products form a chemically bonded lubricating film on the surfaces."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EP_additive

Also note that the version used today has reduced the "o-" part of the tricresyl to eliminate the neurotoxicity, otherwise it would have to be listed in the MSDS.



Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I borrowed this from another thread, I've pasted this into a few threads before HTH. I would follow the suggested OCI for a vehicle and not run MMO if you plan on extending an OCI beyond what the mfg suggests.

70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil)
- It is a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well. [Naphthenic oils have more solvency and are more polar (they are attracted to metal more), but oxidize faster.

29% Mineral Spirits
- Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.

38 parts per million (ppm) Boron
- AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant

900 ppm Phosporous
- AW/EP agent

1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer

Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.

Red Dye - for the color
- well this one just colors the stuff
 
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Thanks Jax. I posted it because we have a some members who feel that MMO is simply mineral spirits the same stuff painters use to thin paint or clean brushes. Truth is there are different grades of mineral spirits as well, and mineral spirits is just a part of MMO. They target a single ingredient rather than look at the total mix. It is the total mix that does the job, not just one component of the mix.

MMO is not for everyone, just like top of the line Boutique Synthetics. There is however a market for MMO, 80+ years has proven that. JMO
 
Originally Posted By: severach
The chlorinated stuff is 0-1% of MMO. Whether it flashes off or not can't be measured with a dip stick. If it converted to acid the TBN in a non HDEO oil should handle it.

Saturn owners don't have much choice. It's MMO, blue smoke, or the machine shop, and sometimes it's the machine shop anyways.


Good to know that there's some proof that MMO is more than snake oil. A friend of mine with a SOHC Saturn is running MMO in the crank and the gas right now. I'll ask him if it reduces his oil burning any.
 
The more I read about MMO, the more I'm convinced it has it's legitimate uses (I used it myself to piston/ring soak).
Too bad the maker is not interested in putting together some studies about MMO. Any students here who need science project ideas?
 
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