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#1825843 - 03/21/10 03:08 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: labman]
bigmike Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 3239
Loc: Florida
Good luck finding anything w/o PS.

My first truck had no power steering (no power anything for that matter). After 11 years of driving it, my forearms looked like Popeyes. I could flat steer it without rolling with one hand.

After having power steering on my last 2 vehicles, I don't think I'd ever want to go back to not having it. Maybe if I did alot of HW driving, I'd consider it though.
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#1825847 - 03/21/10 03:12 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: bigmike]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 28656
Loc: ME
Saturn SLs often did not have it and sold until 2002. (But sometimes got it as a zero-cost option when they ran out of manual racks on the factory floor.) Regardless, any from the series can be swapped to manual.

I had a 99 hyundai accent with manual steering and AC. Nice combo, not a stripper car.

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#1826173 - 03/21/10 07:51 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: eljefino]
mrsilv04 Offline


Registered: 12/08/06
Posts: 7628
Loc: Illinois
The $9,990 Nissan Versa 1.6 base model has power steering.

The base model Kia Rio does NOT have power steering.

Power steering is standard on all Chevy Aveos.
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#1826232 - 03/21/10 08:38 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: mrsilv04]
silverrat Online   content


Registered: 01/09/09
Posts: 1436
Loc: Ontario
I had a 1991 Civic CX hatchback. Base stripped model. No passenger side mirror, no clock, no power windows or power doors, no AC. It had a plastic vinyl interior and no power steering. It had a 70hp 1.5L and weighed 2262 lbs. Still, it was fun.
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03 Civic Si(R) - Assembled in Swindon, England
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#1826397 - 03/21/10 11:23 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering [Re: silverrat]
rationull Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 2746
Loc: California, USA
Originally Posted By: silverrat
I had a 1991 Civic CX hatchback. Base stripped model. No passenger side mirror, no clock, no power windows or power doors, no AC. It had a plastic vinyl interior and no power steering. It had a 70hp 1.5L and weighed 2262 lbs. Still, it was fun.


My first car was a 1988 Toyota Tercel hatchback pretty similar to that. Not a great handling car necessarily but I do miss the combination of lightweight, tight suspension, and manual steering.

IIRC you could get base Hyundai Accents or Kia Rios (maybe both? not sure) without power steering until just a couple or three years ago.

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#1826874 - 03/22/10 12:26 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: ediamiam]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 7713
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: ediamiam
I suspect most cars these days weight minimally 2600+ lbs (scion) hence the need for power steering. How light is a 1990 Miata?


My '49 coupe weighs a lot more than that and never needed power steering. Most early Chrysler A-bodies (Lancer, Valiant, Dart) didn't need PS and typically weighed a tick over 3000 lb.

Power steering is at least a good convenience at low speeds (parking maneuvers), but what I don't understand is power brakes in a car weighing less than 5000 lb. Just absolutely unnecessary, and power boosters muddy up the feel of the brake pedal even worse than power steering damps out the feedback through the steering wheel. The pedal effort doesn't even have to be any higher, what the manufacturers are really using power braking for is to reduce pedal TRAVEL. The very best feeling brakes I've ever driven are unassisted disks.
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'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#1826887 - 03/22/10 12:35 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: 440Magnum]
XS650 Offline


Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 12385
Loc: Northern CA
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: ediamiam
I suspect most cars these days weight minimally 2600+ lbs (scion) hence the need for power steering. How light is a 1990 Miata?


My '49 coupe weighs a lot more than that and never needed power steering. Most early Chrysler A-bodies (Lancer, Valiant, Dart) didn't need PS and typically weighed a tick over 3000 lb.



Your 49 coupe with about 5 turns lock to lock has a much better mechanical advantage than newer cars with their 2.5 to 3 turns lock to lock. I will take good power steering and quick steering over old many turn manual steering any day. The best thing about the good old days is that they are the old days.
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

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#1826916 - 03/22/10 12:49 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: XS650]
labman Offline


Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 8711
Loc: Nothern USA
I guess they keep porking up. A 2010 Chevy Aveo runs almost the 2600#. That is about what my 92 Gramd Am did. Of course the real problem is that we are a society of wimps. Push a button for everything.

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#1827106 - 03/22/10 03:20 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: labman]
GeaugaFletcher Offline


Registered: 09/29/04
Posts: 405
Loc: Undisclosed but secure
A 1990 Miata ran about 2200 pounds, IIRC. Power steering was an option.

My '88 Mercury Tracer (Mazda 323 copy) had manual steering and I loved it. Lots of feedback and a good feel that way. There's just something about being directly, mechanically connected... Even a something like a cable clutch is more fun than hydraulic. Well, until it's time to reach way down into the car's bowels and adjust it, that is.

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#1827137 - 03/22/10 03:45 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: GeaugaFletcher]
addyguy Offline


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 13806
Loc: Canada
My 1986 Honda Civic had manual steering. My folks 1989 Toyota Tercel hatch had manual steering. Both drove well, as they were very light.

I would have guessed that the last Toyota Tercel made would have been one of the last cars to have manual steering. They were one of the last to give up on carburators, as well.
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#1827179 - 03/22/10 04:23 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: XS650]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 7713
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: ediamiam
I suspect most cars these days weight minimally 2600+ lbs (scion) hence the need for power steering. How light is a 1990 Miata?


My '49 coupe weighs a lot more than that and never needed power steering. Most early Chrysler A-bodies (Lancer, Valiant, Dart) didn't need PS and typically weighed a tick over 3000 lb.



Your 49 coupe with about 5 turns lock to lock has a much better mechanical advantage than newer cars with their 2.5 to 3 turns lock to lock. I will take good power steering and quick steering over old many turn manual steering any day. The best thing about the good old days is that they are the old days.


Well, the 49 does use many turns and isn't set up for handling at all so its not the greatest example. But then there are 60s cars with fast-ratio manual boxes that are very fun to drive and have great steering feel. I'd trade maybe 1 extra turn lock-to-lock to get rid of the "is this thing actually connected to the road???" feel that modern cars are prone to have. But truth be told, I'm lazy enough now to like PS for parallel parking, if nothing else.

Power brakes, on the other hand... I still don't get that.
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#1827187 - 03/22/10 04:27 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: 440Magnum]
eljefino Offline


Registered: 06/15/03
Posts: 28656
Loc: ME
Tires were skinnier back in the day so they'd scrub less standing still and I wouldn't be surprised if the suspension geometry also helped manual steering.

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#1827456 - 03/22/10 08:32 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: eljefino]
Big_Ed Offline


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 127
Loc: Illinois, U.S.A.
One thing about older cars with manual steering, they usually had huge steering wheels to give the driver extra leverage, making turning the wheel much easier. My '56 Olds 88 had manual steering. I wish it had power steering. It would have been much more pleasant to drive. Especially when I had to parallel park!

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#1827482 - 03/22/10 08:59 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: Big_Ed]
labman Offline


Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 8711
Loc: Nothern USA
Ah, hupie knobs.

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#1827493 - 03/22/10 09:04 PM Re: Can you still buy a car without Power Steering? [Re: labman]
artificialist Offline


Registered: 09/23/07
Posts: 7858
Loc: Florida
I did an oil change to a Toyota Echo built without power steering. I don't remember the year, but I know that the first Echo was built in 2000.

Anyway, another reason the Miata would have manual steering when others would not is weight balance. The Miata is a RWD car in a size usually filled with FWD cars. That takes a few pounds off the front wheels.
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