2011 Sonata--LIFETIME ATF and no fill/drain plugs

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axjohn

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Don't know if this has been discussed, but I've looked at the new Sonata, and they are saying it needs no ATF changes for the life of the vehicle. Come on, can this possibly be true?

I currently have a manual transmission car, and I use Redline MTL. But I change it.

Are ATF fluids so good now that they don't need changing for the life of the vehicle? Their definition of "life of the vehicle" and mine might be different! Current vehicle has 250,000; two previous vehicles 160k and 175.

So I'm looking seriously at this car, but that "lifetime" fluid--especially the no drain or fill capability, has me squemish.

MAYBE there is really a secret drain and fill location that they just aren't telling customers about. If you're going to warranty the tranny/powertrain for 100k miles, there must be some way to service it!

Sorry for being long, and if this is in the wrong forum, moderators, please act accordingly!
 
Hyundai was best value and out sold Toyota for a while now. I know, I know, but all I know is that I rented a Intrepid in 96 & they gave me a flippin Hyundai and it was a POS. Never. If you take a look at the car now it is impressive. It now looks good too. The 100,000 drive line warranty has been going on for 10 years.
 
John-

You are right to be concerned, I've now seen several of these "sealed" trannies drained after 50-60k and the fluid looks spent. Here are a couple of links for you, the first is the results of a google search of bitog (lots of reading for you), and the second is from the Tacoma World forum that shows what the fluid looks like after just 60k. The bottom line is that the fluid is NOT lifetime, but it is serviceable by the DIY crowd if you spend some time learning the procedure.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&a...amp;safe=images


http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen...smission-3.html
 
Lifetime fill has been common for many years. The typical service life of an automatic, as least the targeted service life, tends to be between 150,000 to 200,000 miles.

The new six-speed auto from Hyundai does have drain and fill plugs. I'm not sure where you received your info but it is definitely wrong.

Here is the info from the FSM:


>2011 > G 2.4 GDI > Automatic Transaxle System > Automatic Transaxle System > Repair procedures
Service Adjustment Procedure
Oil level Check
A check of ATF level is not normally required during scheduled services. If an oil leak is found, perform the oil level check procedure after repairs are completed.
When checking the oil level, be careful not to enter dust, foreign matters, etc. from fill hole.
1.
Remove the eyebolt (A).
Eyebolt tightening torque:
34.3 ~ 44.1 N.m (3.5 ~ 4.5 kgf.m, 25.3 ~ 32.6 lb-ft)
The gasket of the eyebolt use new one.
2.
Add ATF SP-IV 700cc to the ATF injection hole.

[See large image...]
3.
Start the engine. (Don’t step on brake and accelerator simultaneously.
4.
Confirm that the temperature of the A/T oil temperature sensor is 50~60°C(122~140°F) with the GDS.
5.
Shift the select lever slowly from “P” to “D”, then “D” to “P” and repeat one more at idle.
Keep on each speed position more than 2 sec.
6.
Lift the vehicle, then remove the oil level plug (A) from the valve body cover.

[See large image...]
At this time, the vehicle must be a horizontal state.
7.
If the oil flows out of the overflow plug in thin steady stream, the oil level is correct.
Then finish the procedure and tighten the oil plug.
Oil level check (excess or shortage) method
•
Excess: Oil flows out in thick stream.
•
Shortage: No oil flows out of the overflow plug.
If there is no damage at the automatic transaxle and the oil cooler, the oil cooler hose, transaxle case, valve body tightening state are normal, ATF must drop out after performing above 1 to 7 procedures. After performing above 1 to 7 procedures, if the oil doesn’t drop out, inspect the automatic transaxle assembly.
The gasket of the oil level plug use new one.
Oil level plug tightening torque:
34.3 ~ 44.1 N.m (3.5 ~ 4.5 kgf.m, 25.3 ~32.6 lb-ft)
8.
Put down the vehicle with the lift and then tighten the eyebolt.
Replacement
ATF of 6 speed automatic transaxle doesn’t be replaced. But, if the vehicle is severe use or business use, replace ATF every 60,000 miles for severe usage.
Severe usage is defined as
•
Driving in rough road (Bumpy, Gravel, Snowy, Unpaved road, etc)
•
Driving in mountain road, ascent/descent
•
Repetition of short distance driving
•
More than 50% operation in heavy city traffic during hot weather above 32°C(89.6°F) .
•
Police, Taxi, Commercial type operation or trailer towing, etc
1.
Remove the drain plug (A) and reinstall the drain plug after draining ATF totally.

[See large image...]
Drain plug tightening torque:
34.3 ~ 44.1 N.m (3.5 ~ 4.5 kgf.m, 25.3 ~32.6 lb-ft)
The gasket of the drain plug use new one.
2.
Fill the oil about 5 liters.
3.
Check the oil level. (Refer to Oil level check procedure.)


The procedure is no more difficult than servicing a GM 4T45E automatic.
 
The new Hyundai SP-IV ATF must be liquid gold. SP-III ATF costs about $7/qt at dealers and it's been around forever. (exactly why I use Maxlife ATF) On the bright side, it will just be a matter of time before an aftermarket ATF is avail.

Joel
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: RAYPOO
HYUNDAI SP-1V ATF IS THE SAME AS DEXRON 1V

References, please.

For sure SP-III is NOT like Dexron VI. SP-III starts out with a higher viscosity than Dexron VI, and the friction modifiers are different. TCC lockup seems to take forever to fully clamp with SP-III and the 'recommended' substitutes, not so long with Dexron VI.
 
No such thing as Dexron IV.

Modern ATFs are said to be good for 100,000 miles. In any case, for most folks, the ATF is for life--the life of the transmission!
 
Originally Posted By: JTK
The new Hyundai SP-IV ATF must be liquid gold. SP-III ATF costs about $7/qt at dealers and it's been around forever. (exactly why I use Maxlife ATF) On the bright side, it will just be a matter of time before an aftermarket ATF is avail.

Joel

Hyundai SP-III isn't actually all that good, it is just a means for a dealer to charge more for a product that is similar to MOPAR+3.

Anyway, I heard a rumor that the 6AT is built by ZF. What fluid is required in current ZF automatic transmissions?
 
Originally Posted By: artificialist
Originally Posted By: JTK
The new Hyundai SP-IV ATF must be liquid gold. SP-III ATF costs about $7/qt at dealers and it's been around forever. (exactly why I use Maxlife ATF) On the bright side, it will just be a matter of time before an aftermarket ATF is avail.

Joel

Hyundai SP-III isn't actually all that good, it is just a means for a dealer to charge more for a product that is similar to MOPAR+3.

Anyway, I heard a rumor that the 6AT is built by ZF. What fluid is required in current ZF automatic transmissions?


If it is close to ATF+3 then Chryco's ATF+4 should work out great!
 
What's scaring the heck out of me; Over on a Hyundai Santa Fe board I frequent, you see more and more issues with the 5spd auto and now even with the 6spd (which I think the Sonata uses). Makes me hug my Santa Fe's lowly old-school 4spd F4A51.

Joel
 
Originally Posted By: lexus114
No fluid is a lifetime fluid!


Except blood.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: axjohn
Don't know if this has been discussed, but I've looked at the new Sonata, and they are saying it needs no ATF changes for the life of the vehicle. Come on, can this possibly be true? .....

Are ATF fluids so good now that they don't need changing for the life of the vehicle? Their definition of "life of the vehicle" and mine might be different! Current vehicle has 250,000; two previous vehicles 160k and 175.

So I'm looking seriously at this car, but that "lifetime" fluid--especially the no drain or fill capability, has me squemish.


This is nothing new. GM in the 90s claimed lifetime ATF, as did BMW in the 2000s, and plenty of others. As we all found out, that means "if you drive it in optimum conditions and trade every 5 years".

This led to the removal of torque converter drain plugs and even at times no drain plug at all on the transmission.

That led to aftermarket drain plug kits and the in-line flushing machines.

There is no doubt ATFs are much better than they were 20 years ago, including the use of synthetic base stocks and improved additives. Whether they are "lifetime" depends on how you use the vehicle and what you are willing to tolerate.
 
As others have said. Lifetime fluid means for the life of the transmission which will be reduced if you don't change the fluid....

My 2002 Jetta also has lifetime fluid. It doesn't even have a dip stick to check the level! I bought into that and the transmission swallowed itself after 65K. I fought VW on it and we wound up splitting the cost of a new tranny (seems like no one, even VW rebuilds these things and no one but VW will even change the fuild - at least around here). My out of pocket was around $4K IIRC.

So at 90K I MADE them change it (they still swore it was unnecessary). Very expensive but not like another new tranny.

Many hours of research and I finally felt okay trying it myself this time. Seems to have gone fine (about 300 miles on the new fluid now)

Bottom line is there IS a way to do it and you should. Regularly. 30K? 50K? Somewhere around there... And if you have any concerns about the right fluid I'd use the mfgs rec even if it's big bucks. In the long run, it's still a minor cost spread over 40K....

Ken
 
Originally Posted By: JakeR22
Originally Posted By: lexus114
No fluid is a lifetime fluid!


Except blood.
wink.gif



And even that replenishes itself.
 
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