Motorcraft, and ACDelco for that matter, are obviously marketing to the consumer and vehicle owner market, or their filters wouldn't be at Walmart and most retail parts stores. You'd think Motorcraft would take a page from every other brand and list the best efficiency of their filters like AcDelco, Fram Purolator etc do. So I do agree with you that it is not good marketing on Motorcraft's behalf.
Motorcraft Filter Specifications
- Thread starter roushstage2
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I've seen this sort of corporate mind blank many times. Many moons ago when I worked in a boatyard there was one brand of paint that was the most heavily advertised, the most expensive, and the worst. There was another brand that wasn't promoted at all, yet came from a name company that was fairly well known for other things. This lesser known paint was great, lasted well, and was cheaper. If you compared the specs the lesser known paint had much higher quality ingredients. I suspect that the better paint company just focused on its other products where there was a much bigger profit margin, and this great product was just not on their radar screen because no matter how well it did it would only be a blip on the spreadsheets. I suspect it is that way with Motorcraft filters. They could probably sell ten times as many filters and the sales increase would be obscured by a rounding error on some accountant's spreadsheet at Ford.
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
So you got the answer you weren't going to get??
The answer is nothing new than "80% @ 20 micron" I've seen 100 times. I was looking for a better, more specific answer than that, as I've explained a few times now.
Ford's marketing needs to "get with the program" if they expect to sell a Motorcraft filter (besides to someone who doesn't care about efficiency specs) over a Purolator or other competitor's brand.
That's the information those people have to give out. I'm not sure what you expected? I got the "better, more specific answer" from Purolator who makes them. What's the problem besides Ford doesn't list that exact specification? Again, the people who actually know how to and could compare efficiency numbers are the small minority of the population (yeah, it may seem like a lot here where everyone is OCD about oil everything). Most people would say, hey, it's a good filter. I'll get it. I don't think they are going to sit there and have some sort of moral dilemma/debate with themselves about which filter has the best efficiency rating in the middle of the Wal-Mart oil isle. I also doubt that Motorcraft's main oil filter sales come from those who go to the store to buy their filters. It sounds like you are pretty adamant about wanting them to change it. Send a letter?
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
So you got the answer you weren't going to get??
The answer is nothing new than "80% @ 20 micron" I've seen 100 times. I was looking for a better, more specific answer than that, as I've explained a few times now.
Ford's marketing needs to "get with the program" if they expect to sell a Motorcraft filter (besides to someone who doesn't care about efficiency specs) over a Purolator or other competitor's brand.
That's the information those people have to give out. I'm not sure what you expected? I got the "better, more specific answer" from Purolator who makes them. What's the problem besides Ford doesn't list that exact specification? Again, the people who actually know how to and could compare efficiency numbers are the small minority of the population (yeah, it may seem like a lot here where everyone is OCD about oil everything). Most people would say, hey, it's a good filter. I'll get it. I don't think they are going to sit there and have some sort of moral dilemma/debate with themselves about which filter has the best efficiency rating in the middle of the Wal-Mart oil isle. I also doubt that Motorcraft's main oil filter sales come from those who go to the store to buy their filters. It sounds like you are pretty adamant about wanting them to change it. Send a letter?
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
So you got the answer you weren't going to get??
The answer is nothing new than "80% @ 20 micron" I've seen 100 times. I was looking for a better, more specific answer than that, as I've explained a few times now.
Ford's marketing needs to "get with the program" if they expect to sell a Motorcraft filter (besides to someone who doesn't care about efficiency specs) over a Purolator or other competitor's brand.
That's the information those people have to give out. I'm not sure what you expected? I got the "better, more specific answer" from Purolator who makes them. What's the problem besides Ford doesn't list that exact specification? Again, the people who actually know how to and could compare efficiency numbers are the small minority of the population (yeah, it may seem like a lot here where everyone is OCD about oil everything). Most people would say, hey, it's a good filter. I'll get it. I don't think they are going to sit there and have some sort of moral dilemma/debate with themselves about which filter has the best efficiency rating in the middle of the Wal-Mart oil isle. I also doubt that Motorcraft's main oil filter sales come from those who go to the store to buy their filters. It sounds like you are pretty adamant about wanting them to change it. Send a letter?
Frankly, I don't really care how Ford wants to tell the world what their oil filter filtering spec is. But, since I can't get anything out of them besides "80% @ 20 microns" I'm no longer going to buy or even consider using Motorcraft filters anymore when I can use something like a Purolator that gives specific performance info. Even FRAM has more specific filtering performance spec info than Motorcraft ... come on.
Like I said before, if Ford has their act together they would work WITH Purolator and get some better, more specific efficiency specs out on their products. Why should I, you or anyone else have to try and figure out who actually made the filter for Ford and then contact the real manufacture. The filters have "Motorcraft" on them ... NOT Purolator.
I'm not the only person in the world who can understand a filtering efficiency spec. You'd be surprised how many people look at labels and look at specs of items they are comparing to decide what to buy to get the best value.
I'd bet you picked 10 people who have never ever seen the inside guts of an oil filter, and you put a FRAM and a Motorcraft filter in front of them with the filtering specs (FRAM showing much better than the Motorcraft), that 8 of those 10 people would choose the FRAM because the spec led them to believe it was the better performing filter.
Ford can hire me for way over 6 figures as their marketing director if they want it to be done right.
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
So you got the answer you weren't going to get??
The answer is nothing new than "80% @ 20 micron" I've seen 100 times. I was looking for a better, more specific answer than that, as I've explained a few times now.
Ford's marketing needs to "get with the program" if they expect to sell a Motorcraft filter (besides to someone who doesn't care about efficiency specs) over a Purolator or other competitor's brand.
That's the information those people have to give out. I'm not sure what you expected? I got the "better, more specific answer" from Purolator who makes them. What's the problem besides Ford doesn't list that exact specification? Again, the people who actually know how to and could compare efficiency numbers are the small minority of the population (yeah, it may seem like a lot here where everyone is OCD about oil everything). Most people would say, hey, it's a good filter. I'll get it. I don't think they are going to sit there and have some sort of moral dilemma/debate with themselves about which filter has the best efficiency rating in the middle of the Wal-Mart oil isle. I also doubt that Motorcraft's main oil filter sales come from those who go to the store to buy their filters. It sounds like you are pretty adamant about wanting them to change it. Send a letter?
Frankly, I don't really care how Ford wants to tell the world what their oil filter filtering spec is. But, since I can't get anything out of them besides "80% @ 20 microns" I'm no longer going to buy or even consider using Motorcraft filters anymore when I can use something like a Purolator that gives specific performance info. Even FRAM has more specific filtering performance spec info than Motorcraft ... come on.
Like I said before, if Ford has their act together they would work WITH Purolator and get some better, more specific efficiency specs out on their products. Why should I, you or anyone else have to try and figure out who actually made the filter for Ford and then contact the real manufacture. The filters have "Motorcraft" on them ... NOT Purolator.
I'm not the only person in the world who can understand a filtering efficiency spec. You'd be surprised how many people look at labels and look at specs of items they are comparing to decide what to buy to get the best value.
I'd bet you picked 10 people who have never ever seen the inside guts of an oil filter, and you put a FRAM and a Motorcraft filter in front of them with the filtering specs (FRAM showing much better than the Motorcraft), that 8 of those 10 people would choose the FRAM because the spec led them to believe it was the better performing filter.
Ford can hire me for way over 6 figures as their marketing director if they want it to be done right.
You don't care, yet you repeat it in every post. Which is it? You are comparing a company who solely makes filters for their earnings against a company who has simply set "minimum standards" for a part that is made for them to be used in their business to generate income. Who's going to have the higher priority of making their oil filters look better on paper than everyone else's? An oil filter manufacturing company, or a car manufacturer who simply provides a service to people?
You say 8 out of 10 would choose Fram because of the number on a piece of paper...interesting statistic. As I am constantly asked, where's the source of that information? How many of the 10 would not choose Fram simply because it's a Fram? I'm inclined to say more people wouldn't choose a Fram simply because it's a Fram. Same reasoning as why a lot of people say Pennzoil is the worst oil you can buy for your engine, yet there is actual proof otherwise.
You say 8 out of 10 would choose Fram because of the number on a piece of paper...interesting statistic. As I am constantly asked, where's the source of that information? How many of the 10 would not choose Fram simply because it's a Fram? I'm inclined to say more people wouldn't choose a Fram simply because it's a Fram. Same reasoning as why a lot of people say Pennzoil is the worst oil you can buy for your engine, yet there is actual proof otherwise.
Ford is trying sell cars using conventional marketing. They pay for much of our information and entertainment with their advertising dollars.
Purolator is doing their marketing on the cheap by readily making information available to spread around the net. The only entertainment we get from them is laughing at their Kool-Aid drinkers.
Purolator is doing their marketing on the cheap by readily making information available to spread around the net. The only entertainment we get from them is laughing at their Kool-Aid drinkers.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
You don't care, yet you repeat it in every post. Which is it?
It obviously bothers you ... why?, are you affiliated with Ford? IMO, Ford doesn't have it's act together on providing good enough oil filter technical info to potential Motorcraft filter buyers. Not my problem ... if Ford wants to look bad in technical people's eyes, then that's their choice.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
You are comparing a company who solely makes filters for their earnings against a company who has simply set "minimum standards" for a part that is made for them to be used in their business to generate income. Who's going to have the higher priority of making their oil filters look better on paper than everyone else's? An oil filter manufacturing company, or a car manufacturer who simply provides a service to people?
Ford has application info for Motorcraft filters for ALL vehicles ... not just Ford vehicles. I can call a Ford dealer and ask for a Motorcraft filter for my V6 Altima and they will give me a number ... I've done it, it's an FL-822.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
You say 8 out of 10 would choose Fram because of the number on a piece of paper...interesting statistic. As I am constantly asked, where's the source of that information?
If you would read more carefully, you'd see that was my prediction.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
How many of the 10 would not choose Fram simply because it's a Fram? I'm inclined to say more people wouldn't choose a Fram simply because it's a Fram. Same reasoning as why a lot of people say Pennzoil is the worst oil you can buy for your engine, yet there is actual proof otherwise.
Again, you need to read more carefully. I said if those people choosing between two filters knew nothing about what was really inside the filter or how it was constructed - but only the performance specs were shown. You are assuming the 10 people are familiar with the construction details and not just the performance specs shown by the manufacture. That's a whole different story.
Anyway, I can see this is going in circles now, and obviously you think Ford is supreme in their technical info and specs ... I don't thing so and that is the whole discussion here. Personally, it has turned me off from buying Motorcarft oil filters, even for the Ford vehicles in the family. Why should I have to guess at their performance, when other manufactures give me better and more specific performance data?
You don't care, yet you repeat it in every post. Which is it?
It obviously bothers you ... why?, are you affiliated with Ford? IMO, Ford doesn't have it's act together on providing good enough oil filter technical info to potential Motorcraft filter buyers. Not my problem ... if Ford wants to look bad in technical people's eyes, then that's their choice.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
You are comparing a company who solely makes filters for their earnings against a company who has simply set "minimum standards" for a part that is made for them to be used in their business to generate income. Who's going to have the higher priority of making their oil filters look better on paper than everyone else's? An oil filter manufacturing company, or a car manufacturer who simply provides a service to people?
Ford has application info for Motorcraft filters for ALL vehicles ... not just Ford vehicles. I can call a Ford dealer and ask for a Motorcraft filter for my V6 Altima and they will give me a number ... I've done it, it's an FL-822.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
You say 8 out of 10 would choose Fram because of the number on a piece of paper...interesting statistic. As I am constantly asked, where's the source of that information?
If you would read more carefully, you'd see that was my prediction.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
How many of the 10 would not choose Fram simply because it's a Fram? I'm inclined to say more people wouldn't choose a Fram simply because it's a Fram. Same reasoning as why a lot of people say Pennzoil is the worst oil you can buy for your engine, yet there is actual proof otherwise.
Again, you need to read more carefully. I said if those people choosing between two filters knew nothing about what was really inside the filter or how it was constructed - but only the performance specs were shown. You are assuming the 10 people are familiar with the construction details and not just the performance specs shown by the manufacture. That's a whole different story.
Anyway, I can see this is going in circles now, and obviously you think Ford is supreme in their technical info and specs ... I don't thing so and that is the whole discussion here. Personally, it has turned me off from buying Motorcarft oil filters, even for the Ford vehicles in the family. Why should I have to guess at their performance, when other manufactures give me better and more specific performance data?
Originally Posted By: labman
Ford is trying sell cars using conventional marketing. They pay for much of our information and entertainment with their advertising dollars.
Purolator is doing their marketing on the cheap by readily making information available to spread around the net. The only entertainment we get from them is laughing at their Kool-Aid drinkers.
It's hard to deny specs tested to a industry standard. What else do people have to compare filter performance? Purolator Kook-Aid tastes good.
Ford is trying sell cars using conventional marketing. They pay for much of our information and entertainment with their advertising dollars.
Purolator is doing their marketing on the cheap by readily making information available to spread around the net. The only entertainment we get from them is laughing at their Kool-Aid drinkers.
It's hard to deny specs tested to a industry standard. What else do people have to compare filter performance? Purolator Kook-Aid tastes good.
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
You don't care, yet you repeat it in every post. Which is it?
It obviously bothers you ... why?, are you affiliated with Ford? IMO, Ford doesn't have it's act together on providing good enough oil filter technical info to potential Motorcraft filter buyers. Not my problem ... if Ford wants to look bad in technical people's eyes, then that's their choice.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
You are comparing a company who solely makes filters for their earnings against a company who has simply set "minimum standards" for a part that is made for them to be used in their business to generate income. Who's going to have the higher priority of making their oil filters look better on paper than everyone else's? An oil filter manufacturing company, or a car manufacturer who simply provides a service to people?
Ford has application info for Motorcraft filters for ALL vehicles ... not just Ford vehicles. I can call a Ford dealer and ask for a Motorcraft filter for my V6 Altima and they will give me a number ... I've done it, it's an FL-822.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
You say 8 out of 10 would choose Fram because of the number on a piece of paper...interesting statistic. As I am constantly asked, where's the source of that information?
If you would read more carefully, you'd see that was my prediction.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
How many of the 10 would not choose Fram simply because it's a Fram? I'm inclined to say more people wouldn't choose a Fram simply because it's a Fram. Same reasoning as why a lot of people say Pennzoil is the worst oil you can buy for your engine, yet there is actual proof otherwise.
Again, you need to read more carefully. I said if those people choosing between two filters knew nothing about what was really inside the filter or how it was constructed - but only the performance specs were shown. You are assuming the 10 people are familiar with the construction details and not just the performance specs shown by the manufacture. That's a whole different story.
Anyway, I can see this is going in circles now, and obviously you think Ford is supreme in their technical info and specs ... I don't thing so and that is the whole discussion here. Personally, it has turned me off from buying Motorcarft oil filters, even for the Ford vehicles in the family. Why should I have to guess at their performance, when other manufactures give me better and more specific performance data?
It doesn't bother me. I'm just asking why you keep repeating it in every post if you don't care? Not my bad that you didn't understand that it was actually a question, hence the "?" mark, and answered it with a question. "Am I affiliated with Ford?" If owning a particular brand of anything constitutes affiliation with them, then sure, I guess so. Motorcraft is a separate division though. If you actually call Ford, as I have, they will tell you that you will need to get a hold of someone from Motorcraft or at a dealer who has access to the Motorcraft information. Again, Ford is a car manufacturer; not a filter producer.
OK. What does that have to do with a filter company providing actual specs vs. a car manufacturer providing their minimums for reference? Nothing...
I'm not talking about people knowing about construction. People will simply NOT buy or use products from certain companies simply because of the NAME. For example, I don't plan on buying or driving anything that says GMC or Chevrolet on it, simply because of who the company is. Nothing to do with specs, colors, options. The name alone.
It has nothing to do with me believing their specs are supreme in every way. It's that you are getting upset over a car company not providing specific specifications for oil filters. They were good before when they were still only listed as 80% at 20 microns, but now that it is shown that is really the only spec they have listed for them, they are bad? It's like someone else on this site that said FRAM filters would be good if they cost 1/2 of what they do. Apparently price determines actual quality too. That is logic at its finest. Won't miss it.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
You don't care, yet you repeat it in every post. Which is it?
It obviously bothers you ... why?, are you affiliated with Ford? IMO, Ford doesn't have it's act together on providing good enough oil filter technical info to potential Motorcraft filter buyers. Not my problem ... if Ford wants to look bad in technical people's eyes, then that's their choice.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
You are comparing a company who solely makes filters for their earnings against a company who has simply set "minimum standards" for a part that is made for them to be used in their business to generate income. Who's going to have the higher priority of making their oil filters look better on paper than everyone else's? An oil filter manufacturing company, or a car manufacturer who simply provides a service to people?
Ford has application info for Motorcraft filters for ALL vehicles ... not just Ford vehicles. I can call a Ford dealer and ask for a Motorcraft filter for my V6 Altima and they will give me a number ... I've done it, it's an FL-822.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
You say 8 out of 10 would choose Fram because of the number on a piece of paper...interesting statistic. As I am constantly asked, where's the source of that information?
If you would read more carefully, you'd see that was my prediction.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
How many of the 10 would not choose Fram simply because it's a Fram? I'm inclined to say more people wouldn't choose a Fram simply because it's a Fram. Same reasoning as why a lot of people say Pennzoil is the worst oil you can buy for your engine, yet there is actual proof otherwise.
Again, you need to read more carefully. I said if those people choosing between two filters knew nothing about what was really inside the filter or how it was constructed - but only the performance specs were shown. You are assuming the 10 people are familiar with the construction details and not just the performance specs shown by the manufacture. That's a whole different story.
Anyway, I can see this is going in circles now, and obviously you think Ford is supreme in their technical info and specs ... I don't thing so and that is the whole discussion here. Personally, it has turned me off from buying Motorcarft oil filters, even for the Ford vehicles in the family. Why should I have to guess at their performance, when other manufactures give me better and more specific performance data?
It doesn't bother me. I'm just asking why you keep repeating it in every post if you don't care? Not my bad that you didn't understand that it was actually a question, hence the "?" mark, and answered it with a question. "Am I affiliated with Ford?" If owning a particular brand of anything constitutes affiliation with them, then sure, I guess so. Motorcraft is a separate division though. If you actually call Ford, as I have, they will tell you that you will need to get a hold of someone from Motorcraft or at a dealer who has access to the Motorcraft information. Again, Ford is a car manufacturer; not a filter producer.
OK. What does that have to do with a filter company providing actual specs vs. a car manufacturer providing their minimums for reference? Nothing...
I'm not talking about people knowing about construction. People will simply NOT buy or use products from certain companies simply because of the NAME. For example, I don't plan on buying or driving anything that says GMC or Chevrolet on it, simply because of who the company is. Nothing to do with specs, colors, options. The name alone.
It has nothing to do with me believing their specs are supreme in every way. It's that you are getting upset over a car company not providing specific specifications for oil filters. They were good before when they were still only listed as 80% at 20 microns, but now that it is shown that is really the only spec they have listed for them, they are bad? It's like someone else on this site that said FRAM filters would be good if they cost 1/2 of what they do. Apparently price determines actual quality too. That is logic at its finest. Won't miss it.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
It doesn't bother me. I'm just asking why you keep repeating it in every post if you don't care? Not my bad that you didn't understand that it was actually a question, hence the "?" mark, and answered it with a question. "Am I affiliated with Ford?" If owning a particular brand of anything constitutes affiliation with them, then sure, I guess so.
Like I've said before ... I don't care. But I like talking technical, and apparently you don't understand the focus of the discussion ... hence it goes in circles.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
Motorcraft is a separate division though. If you actually call Ford, as I have, they will tell you that you will need to get a hold of someone from Motorcraft or at a dealer who has access to the Motorcraft information. Again, Ford is a car manufacturer; not a filter producer.
So? ... Motorcraft is still "Ford" if it's a division of Ford. The Motorcraft products have the Ford logo or "FoMoCo" on them - look at your filters. They certainly aren't "Purolator", even if Purolator makes the actual product.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
I'm not talking about people knowing about construction. People will simply NOT buy or use products from certain companies simply because of the NAME. For example, I don't plan on buying or driving anything that says GMC or Chevrolet on it, simply because of who the company is. Nothing to do with specs, colors, options. The name alone.
I just don't blindly go buy OEM brand name parts unless I know they are quality. So if Motorcraft were really all "80% @ 20 microns" you'd still buy them just because they are Ford OEM filters? Wow ... that's real brand name loyalty there.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
It has nothing to do with me believing their specs are supreme in every way. It's that you are getting upset over a car company not providing specific specifications for oil filters.
I'm just pointing out Fords marketing flaws. I hope someone from Ford is reading this thread.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
They were good before when they were still only listed as 80% at 20 microns, but now that it is shown that is really the only spec they have listed for them, they are bad?
You think 80% @ 20 microns is good?
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
It's like someone else on this site that said FRAM filters would be good if they cost 1/2 of what they do. Apparently price determines actual quality too. That is logic at its finest. Won't miss it.
Well, I can buy a Purolator Classic at 1/2 the price of the same filter in Motorcraft (I've used both). The Classic is rated at 97.5% @ 20 microns for $3.50 and the Motorcraft is rated at 80% @ 20 microns for $6 or $7 from the dealer. Which one should I buy?
If the Motorcraft had a published efficiency spec specific to the filter I needed that showed it was just as efficient, then I might buy it instead, even if it was more money. Value and performance are the criteria I use to make buying decisions.
Companies sell products to make money ... so if Ford is losing sales due to bad technical info on their products then that's their problem. It's obvious that better marketing can only help them.
It doesn't bother me. I'm just asking why you keep repeating it in every post if you don't care? Not my bad that you didn't understand that it was actually a question, hence the "?" mark, and answered it with a question. "Am I affiliated with Ford?" If owning a particular brand of anything constitutes affiliation with them, then sure, I guess so.
Like I've said before ... I don't care. But I like talking technical, and apparently you don't understand the focus of the discussion ... hence it goes in circles.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
Motorcraft is a separate division though. If you actually call Ford, as I have, they will tell you that you will need to get a hold of someone from Motorcraft or at a dealer who has access to the Motorcraft information. Again, Ford is a car manufacturer; not a filter producer.
So? ... Motorcraft is still "Ford" if it's a division of Ford. The Motorcraft products have the Ford logo or "FoMoCo" on them - look at your filters. They certainly aren't "Purolator", even if Purolator makes the actual product.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
I'm not talking about people knowing about construction. People will simply NOT buy or use products from certain companies simply because of the NAME. For example, I don't plan on buying or driving anything that says GMC or Chevrolet on it, simply because of who the company is. Nothing to do with specs, colors, options. The name alone.
I just don't blindly go buy OEM brand name parts unless I know they are quality. So if Motorcraft were really all "80% @ 20 microns" you'd still buy them just because they are Ford OEM filters? Wow ... that's real brand name loyalty there.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
It has nothing to do with me believing their specs are supreme in every way. It's that you are getting upset over a car company not providing specific specifications for oil filters.
I'm just pointing out Fords marketing flaws. I hope someone from Ford is reading this thread.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
They were good before when they were still only listed as 80% at 20 microns, but now that it is shown that is really the only spec they have listed for them, they are bad?
You think 80% @ 20 microns is good?
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
It's like someone else on this site that said FRAM filters would be good if they cost 1/2 of what they do. Apparently price determines actual quality too. That is logic at its finest. Won't miss it.
Well, I can buy a Purolator Classic at 1/2 the price of the same filter in Motorcraft (I've used both). The Classic is rated at 97.5% @ 20 microns for $3.50 and the Motorcraft is rated at 80% @ 20 microns for $6 or $7 from the dealer. Which one should I buy?
Companies sell products to make money ... so if Ford is losing sales due to bad technical info on their products then that's their problem. It's obvious that better marketing can only help them.
Quote:
I just don't blindly go buy OEM brand name parts unless I know they are quality. So if Motorcraft were really all "80% @ 20 microns" you'd still buy them just because they are Ford OEM filters? Wow ... that's real brand name loyalty there.
You may or may not blindly buy something based on name, but people do. That is what I was talking about. People buy or don't buy, use or don't use, SIMPLY BASED ON NAME! That's why there's an actual name for the behavior! Brand name loyalty. People engage in it, like Mobil 1 users. That's the [censored] because it says Mobil 1 on it. But hey, way to take what I said, which was in response to one of your comments, and twist it to make another completely misinterpreted argument over something.
Quote:
You think 80% @ 20 microns is good? LOL
I was talking about you using or buying them before and now all of a sudden they are bad. Not that you want anything to do with them. It's a minimum, since I apparently have to point that out, again. There. I bolded it for you so hopefully you don't miss it, again. You keep referring to it as the end-all, exact spec for them. You just don't want to hear anything because it didn't come from Ford's mouths. I got it.
I've never paid $6 or $7 for a Motorcraft filter, either. For someone that seems so intelligent about the whole situation, I'm not sure why you would go to a dealer and buy the filters anyways. As for performance, out of the how many UOAs here with these filters, how many are bad? I can't imagine hardly any at all, if there even are any, if everyone uses them on vehicles from Ford to Toyotas to Dodges to Hondas and so on with great results time and time again.
I can see you like talking technical, that's why you keep skipping over things or twisting them in a certain way to try and make your point to me. It keeps going in circles because you keep repeating the same thing, and therefore I repeat my answers. Me not getting the focus of the discussion? "80% at 20 microns" twisting your pink panties in a bunch because it's not technical and Motorcraft isn't spewing specifics out. I get it. Besides, I thought you were done? Had to get the last word over something you don't care about?
Don't buy the filters. I don't care either. That wasn't the intention of the thread when I started it. I was simply sharing information that people had asked me if I could get.
I just don't blindly go buy OEM brand name parts unless I know they are quality. So if Motorcraft were really all "80% @ 20 microns" you'd still buy them just because they are Ford OEM filters? Wow ... that's real brand name loyalty there.
You may or may not blindly buy something based on name, but people do. That is what I was talking about. People buy or don't buy, use or don't use, SIMPLY BASED ON NAME! That's why there's an actual name for the behavior! Brand name loyalty. People engage in it, like Mobil 1 users. That's the [censored] because it says Mobil 1 on it. But hey, way to take what I said, which was in response to one of your comments, and twist it to make another completely misinterpreted argument over something.
Quote:
You think 80% @ 20 microns is good? LOL
I was talking about you using or buying them before and now all of a sudden they are bad. Not that you want anything to do with them. It's a minimum, since I apparently have to point that out, again. There. I bolded it for you so hopefully you don't miss it, again. You keep referring to it as the end-all, exact spec for them. You just don't want to hear anything because it didn't come from Ford's mouths. I got it.
I've never paid $6 or $7 for a Motorcraft filter, either. For someone that seems so intelligent about the whole situation, I'm not sure why you would go to a dealer and buy the filters anyways. As for performance, out of the how many UOAs here with these filters, how many are bad? I can't imagine hardly any at all, if there even are any, if everyone uses them on vehicles from Ford to Toyotas to Dodges to Hondas and so on with great results time and time again.
I can see you like talking technical, that's why you keep skipping over things or twisting them in a certain way to try and make your point to me. It keeps going in circles because you keep repeating the same thing, and therefore I repeat my answers. Me not getting the focus of the discussion? "80% at 20 microns" twisting your pink panties in a bunch because it's not technical and Motorcraft isn't spewing specifics out. I get it. Besides, I thought you were done? Had to get the last word over something you don't care about?
Don't buy the filters. I don't care either. That wasn't the intention of the thread when I started it. I was simply sharing information that people had asked me if I could get.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
Quote:
I just don't blindly go buy OEM brand name parts unless I know they are quality. So if Motorcraft were really all "80% @ 20 microns" you'd still buy them just because they are Ford OEM filters? Wow ... that's real brand name loyalty there.
You may or may not blindly buy something based on name, but people do. That is what I was talking about. People buy or don't buy, use or don't use, SIMPLY BASED ON NAME! That's why there's an actual name for the behavior! Brand name loyalty. People engage in it, like Mobil 1 users. That's the [censored] because it says Mobil 1 on it. But hey, way to take what I said, which was in response to one of your comments, and twist it to make another completely misinterpreted argument over something.
I didn't twist anything around - maybe you hear like you want to - lack of comprehension. Like I said above, would you buy a Motorcraft filter for instance just because it was Motorcraft brand regardless if you knew or not it was possibly inferior to many other filters because of it's low efficiency rating?
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
Quote:
You think 80% @ 20 microns is good? LOL
I was talking about you using or buying them before and now all of a sudden they are bad. Not that you want anything to do with them. It's a minimum, since I apparently have to point that out, again. There. I bolded it for you so hopefully you don't miss it, again. You keep referring to it as the end-all, exact spec for them. You just don't want to hear anything because it didn't come from Ford's mouths. I got it.
I'll try to explain it one more time. Since Ford gives this one "80% @ 20 micron" efficiency spec for ALL their filters, how do you know which ones are at 80% or which ones are better than that? Tell me, how would you know? You could very well be using a substandard performing filter on all your Ford vehicles right now - does that make you feel comfortable? This is why I decided to shy away from Motorcraft filters ... I don't really know for sure what I'm buying in terms of filtering performance. Do you get that logic?
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
I've never paid $6 or $7 for a Motorcraft filter, either. For someone that seems so intelligent about the whole situation, I'm not sure why you would go to a dealer and buy the filters anyways.
Walmart or other places that carry Motorcraft oil filters don't carry the filter I need. I'd have to buy it from the dealer directly, and the dealer is WAY more expensive than Walmart. Not every one uses a FL-820 on their vehicles.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
I can see you like talking technical, that's why you keep skipping over things or twisting them in a certain way to try and make your point to me. It keeps going in circles because you keep repeating the same thing, and therefore I repeat my answers. Me not getting the focus of the discussion? "80% at 20 microns" twisting your pink panties in a bunch because it's not technical and Motorcraft isn't spewing specifics out. I get it. Besides, I thought you were done? Had to get the last word over something you don't care about?
... doesn't deserve a response. I think yours are bunched up pretty good while composing that one.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
Don't buy the filters. I don't care either. That wasn't the intention of the thread when I started it. I was simply sharing information that people had asked me if I could get.
Even FRAMS look like a better performer when the specs are compared. Ford is slacking in the spec department, and it's unfortunate.
Quote:
I just don't blindly go buy OEM brand name parts unless I know they are quality. So if Motorcraft were really all "80% @ 20 microns" you'd still buy them just because they are Ford OEM filters? Wow ... that's real brand name loyalty there.
You may or may not blindly buy something based on name, but people do. That is what I was talking about. People buy or don't buy, use or don't use, SIMPLY BASED ON NAME! That's why there's an actual name for the behavior! Brand name loyalty. People engage in it, like Mobil 1 users. That's the [censored] because it says Mobil 1 on it. But hey, way to take what I said, which was in response to one of your comments, and twist it to make another completely misinterpreted argument over something.
I didn't twist anything around - maybe you hear like you want to - lack of comprehension. Like I said above, would you buy a Motorcraft filter for instance just because it was Motorcraft brand regardless if you knew or not it was possibly inferior to many other filters because of it's low efficiency rating?
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
Quote:
You think 80% @ 20 microns is good? LOL
I was talking about you using or buying them before and now all of a sudden they are bad. Not that you want anything to do with them. It's a minimum, since I apparently have to point that out, again. There. I bolded it for you so hopefully you don't miss it, again. You keep referring to it as the end-all, exact spec for them. You just don't want to hear anything because it didn't come from Ford's mouths. I got it.
I'll try to explain it one more time. Since Ford gives this one "80% @ 20 micron" efficiency spec for ALL their filters, how do you know which ones are at 80% or which ones are better than that? Tell me, how would you know? You could very well be using a substandard performing filter on all your Ford vehicles right now - does that make you feel comfortable? This is why I decided to shy away from Motorcraft filters ... I don't really know for sure what I'm buying in terms of filtering performance. Do you get that logic?
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
I've never paid $6 or $7 for a Motorcraft filter, either. For someone that seems so intelligent about the whole situation, I'm not sure why you would go to a dealer and buy the filters anyways.
Walmart or other places that carry Motorcraft oil filters don't carry the filter I need. I'd have to buy it from the dealer directly, and the dealer is WAY more expensive than Walmart. Not every one uses a FL-820 on their vehicles.
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
I can see you like talking technical, that's why you keep skipping over things or twisting them in a certain way to try and make your point to me. It keeps going in circles because you keep repeating the same thing, and therefore I repeat my answers. Me not getting the focus of the discussion? "80% at 20 microns" twisting your pink panties in a bunch because it's not technical and Motorcraft isn't spewing specifics out. I get it. Besides, I thought you were done? Had to get the last word over something you don't care about?
Originally Posted By: roushstage2
Don't buy the filters. I don't care either. That wasn't the intention of the thread when I started it. I was simply sharing information that people had asked me if I could get.
Even FRAMS look like a better performer when the specs are compared. Ford is slacking in the spec department, and it's unfortunate.
Remember... Quality is Job One.....
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: rszappa1
Remember... Quality is Job One.....
A constructive contribution as always.
What I find comical is that we have the proponent of Purolator filters (which are excellent) arguing with somebody over the Motorcraft filters, which are also made by Purolator, LOL!
Remember... Quality is Job One.....
A constructive contribution as always.
What I find comical is that we have the proponent of Purolator filters (which are excellent) arguing with somebody over the Motorcraft filters, which are also made by Purolator, LOL!
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
What I find comical is that we have the proponent of Purolator filters (which are excellent) arguing with somebody over the Motorcraft filters, which are also made by Purolator, LOL!
It's much deeper then that. Even though Motorcraft oil filters may be made by Purolator, it's puzzling that Ford/Motorcraft haven't adopted the same filtering performance specs as the Purolators. Why wouldn't they if they indeed performed the same?
Why is Ford/Motorcraft adopting this "worse case" efficiency spec of "80% @ 20 microns"? If they were better (and they most likely are), why isn't the spec advertised as better? It doesn't make sense, and that's the main focus of the debate here.
If the Motorcraft filters really are a lot better than 80% @ 20 microns then Ford is basically shooting themselves in the foot IMO.
What I find comical is that we have the proponent of Purolator filters (which are excellent) arguing with somebody over the Motorcraft filters, which are also made by Purolator, LOL!
It's much deeper then that. Even though Motorcraft oil filters may be made by Purolator, it's puzzling that Ford/Motorcraft haven't adopted the same filtering performance specs as the Purolators. Why wouldn't they if they indeed performed the same?
Why is Ford/Motorcraft adopting this "worse case" efficiency spec of "80% @ 20 microns"? If they were better (and they most likely are), why isn't the spec advertised as better? It doesn't make sense, and that's the main focus of the debate here.
If the Motorcraft filters really are a lot better than 80% @ 20 microns then Ford is basically shooting themselves in the foot IMO.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
This would not be the first time Ford shot themselves in the foot though, LOL!
I would frankly be quite surprised if the media is much different, if not identical to what is in the Purolator classic.
Here's a pic of my used FL-820S media:
Not that you can gauge anything from the picture, but hey, it looks cool and it caught stuff
I would frankly be quite surprised if the media is much different, if not identical to what is in the Purolator classic.
Here's a pic of my used FL-820S media:
Not that you can gauge anything from the picture, but hey, it looks cool and it caught stuff
Superbusa, you should just marry your PureONE and call it good.
I'd bet $100000 that the Motorcraft is using Puro Classic media. Until proven wrong, I'd say it's the safe bet.
I'd bet $100000 that the Motorcraft is using Puro Classic media. Until proven wrong, I'd say it's the safe bet.
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Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
Superbusa, you should just marry your PureONE and call it good.
I'd bet $100000 that the Motorcraft is using Puro Classic media. Until proven wrong, I'd say it's the safe bet.
... yeah, whatever. But hey, the Motorcraft specs sure don't give you any solid data to make a "safe bet" on. There must be some Motorcraft filters that are at 80% @ 20 microns if that is their claimed minimum performance spec.
So why do you think Ford/Motorcraft doesn't use Purolator's efficiency specs if they are the same? Nobody seems to have that elusive answer. Why is that?
This is an exercise in logic.
So we have verbal agreement, and as recorded in text here, that if I can prove to you that any Motorcraft filter is less than a Purolator Classic that you will pay me $100,000? Remember, verbal agreements are contractually binding.
Superbusa, you should just marry your PureONE and call it good.
I'd bet $100000 that the Motorcraft is using Puro Classic media. Until proven wrong, I'd say it's the safe bet.
So why do you think Ford/Motorcraft doesn't use Purolator's efficiency specs if they are the same? Nobody seems to have that elusive answer. Why is that?
So we have verbal agreement, and as recorded in text here, that if I can prove to you that any Motorcraft filter is less than a Purolator Classic that you will pay me $100,000? Remember, verbal agreements are contractually binding.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
'Busa:
I have no answer for you other than, going from your logic point, it doesn't make sense for Purolator to manufacturer an "inferior" media exclusively for Ford, nor would I find it sensible for Ford to demand such.
Likely, Ford has a "minimum" filter standard; an efficiency that, once one goes beyond, has an impact on engine life. These filters meet that minimum standard. It doesn't mean they don't actually filter significantly better than that; likely, they DO. But they meet the spec set by Ford and that is what is advertised.
Realistically, since Ford does not make it a point to advertise the filter's efficiency, somebody grabbing a Motorcraft filter because Motorcraft=Ford is just simply going to use that logic; Motorcraft=Ford, therefore it is good for their vehicle.
They aren't in the business to sell filters, as another post to put it. They aren't trying to advertise the efficiency. What you find is simply their minimum standard for filtration efficiency. How their filters ACTUALLY perform in comparison to that standard is probably a question for Purolator, and one you may not get an answer to.
I have no answer for you other than, going from your logic point, it doesn't make sense for Purolator to manufacturer an "inferior" media exclusively for Ford, nor would I find it sensible for Ford to demand such.
Likely, Ford has a "minimum" filter standard; an efficiency that, once one goes beyond, has an impact on engine life. These filters meet that minimum standard. It doesn't mean they don't actually filter significantly better than that; likely, they DO. But they meet the spec set by Ford and that is what is advertised.
Realistically, since Ford does not make it a point to advertise the filter's efficiency, somebody grabbing a Motorcraft filter because Motorcraft=Ford is just simply going to use that logic; Motorcraft=Ford, therefore it is good for their vehicle.
They aren't in the business to sell filters, as another post to put it. They aren't trying to advertise the efficiency. What you find is simply their minimum standard for filtration efficiency. How their filters ACTUALLY perform in comparison to that standard is probably a question for Purolator, and one you may not get an answer to.
Yes, that all makes sense ... but the fact still remains that Ford/Motorcraft could do much better in the spec department. That is the focus. It would be like GM saying: "We designed this ZR1, and made it to do at least 90 MPH and pull at least 0.35 G in the corners." But they never come out and say just how good it really is. Maybe Ford will do that for their new Shelby Mustang.
It's a significant shortcoming ... they could do much better. Nobody should have to go to Purolator for the answer ... it's Motorcraft's filter. Besides, probably not many, except BITOG nuts would even know Purolator makes their filters.
Oh well, maybe I should email this thread to my buddy Alan Mulally ... he might get a kick out of it.
It's a significant shortcoming ... they could do much better. Nobody should have to go to Purolator for the answer ... it's Motorcraft's filter. Besides, probably not many, except BITOG nuts would even know Purolator makes their filters.
Oh well, maybe I should email this thread to my buddy Alan Mulally ... he might get a kick out of it.
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