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#1808991 - 03/08/10 05:02 PM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: Shannow]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Better turn up to work tomorrow and ask the boss to sack me for my lack of technical understanding...in an environment which has maybe the most technically complex control systems that are ever likely to be seen.


I only question your understanding of the automobile engine thermostat. You are the one that veered off topic and are not able to show any proof that I have asked for.

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#1808996 - 03/08/10 05:08 PM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: mechanicx]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic


And you are calling other people around here "non-technical" and "shade-tree" while you rely on product promotional/marketing links as technical info? I got news for you, Dexcool has about the longest lasting inhibitors that coolant researchers have found. And even they don't call it a lifetime coolant.


Dexcool is not a lifetime coolant and that is why they do not have a lifetime warranty like Peak Global coolant. Yup, shade tree mechanicx never read the lifetime warranty otherwise they be out of a job. Shade tree mechanicx are non-technical by definition.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Shade%20Tree%20Mechanic

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#1809000 - 03/08/10 05:15 PM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: Boss302fan]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan

I would NEVER use lifetime coolant and not change it, that is how you ruin a car. What am I wasting, $20? WW is around $12 and I would rather use fresh coolant then waste my money on that product.


You are wasting $20 per year, year after year. Any proof on using a lifetime coolant such as Peak Global and ruining an engine? Have you read their warranty? Do you change oil every 3K miles or 6 months regardless?

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#1809035 - 03/08/10 05:46 PM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: azsynthetic]
mechanicx Offline


Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 8576
Loc: Ohio
Peak Global is a lifetime coolant just because their marketing says so? Explain how PGL can last longer than Dexcool? Global has sodium benzoate which is used in 2 year coolant and in G-05. So tell us since you are so technical what's the other magic ingredient that makes it last longer than Dexcool and its extended life HD coolant variants? And if it is so good then why are OEM manufactures using Dexcool and not Peak Global.

They should be using Peak Global and Water Wetter according to you, but none of them are. I guess manufacturers are too "shade tree" and "non-technical".

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#1809092 - 03/08/10 06:25 PM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: 440Magnum]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

Quote:
The patent on the light switch does claim that it turn the lights on and off. The patent on the engine thermostat never claim that it control the engine temperature, only you do. See the difference?


Patent on the light switch? Sheesh. There's no such thing- maybe a patent or two on a particular light swicth *mechanism,* but that's a different matter altogether. Besides, there's nothing technical about patents- that's the domain of lawyers and "non technical" people for the most part.



Hahahaha, you are indeed hilarious. First, you brought up the light switch to compare to the engine thermostat then now admit that it is a different matter altogether, just like I said.

Have you heard of a patent engineer?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_engineer

In Europe, you can not patent an invention unless it has a technical contribution. So, where is the patent on an engine thermostat that controls or sets the engine temperature like you have dreamed about?

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#1809156 - 03/08/10 07:03 PM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: mechanicx]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Peak Global is a lifetime coolant just because their marketing says so? Explain how PGL can last longer than Dexcool? Global has sodium benzoate which is used in 2 year coolant and in G-05. So tell us since you are so technical what's the other magic ingredient that makes it last longer than Dexcool and its extended life HD coolant variants? And if it is so good then why are OEM manufactures using Dexcool and not Peak Global.

They should be using Peak Global and Water Wetter according to you, but none of them are. I guess manufacturers are too "shade tree" and "non-technical".


All of your questions are answered here (pay attention to the phrase "patented organic acid technology"):

http://www.peakantifreeze.com/faq_global.html#B

We all know how good Amsoil, Red Line, Royal Purple are but the car manufacturers are too cheap to use them. Heck, they are also too cheap to use synthetic oil in all of their models. Manufacturers are not shade tree, they are just too cheap.

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#1809762 - 03/09/10 08:04 AM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: azsynthetic]
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
Guys ..guys. Cut him a break. He's a Honeywell guy. If the manual for Honeywell UDC's is any indication of the corporate culture he was forced to endure (Col. Kurts - The horror - the horror shocked ), you might consider cutting him some slack. They're all about convoluted and textural games of sophisticated semantics.

After figuring out how to configure a PID loop on my own, I really wanted to meet the guy(s) who wrote the manual. He/they were the basis for my creation of Gary Allan Consulting Services. My service will take any product (hardware/software) and work with it. If any senseless instructions or procedures are involved ..FOR NO GOOD REASON ..I will (included in the consulting fee) go to the offending person's office grab them by the tie or necklace and cause them to meet a hard object ..repeatedly if the stupidity of the instruction/procedure was of high frustration on the frustration quotient scale.
_________________________
http://lube-direct.com/gallan/

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#1810477 - 03/09/10 05:38 PM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: Gary Allan]
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
Let me add that the only way I can wrap around azsythetic's conceptual view is in the case of a heating system. The thermostat doesn't "maintain" the heat. It's merely a switch to actuate the heat maintenance device (furnace- whatever). The flaw in that concept is that an automobile engine is not in the heat maintenance business. That's the job of the cooling system. Heat is merely a byproduct of the operation. The thermostat manages that heat production to maintain it within narrow confines. In a heating system it would require 24/7 operation with the thermostat opening your door to the cold to provide a comparable view.
_________________________
http://lube-direct.com/gallan/

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#1810659 - 03/09/10 07:39 PM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: Gary Allan]
coachditka Offline


Registered: 07/15/09
Posts: 176
Loc: Texas
On topic....I added Purple Ice to my coolant after it was fully flushed and replenished. I have been running it for at least 30k with no issues. It's in a 2005 Nissan Titan.

I can't say it runs much cooler, but it just gets plain hot here in the summer and I run my a/c all day (it's my work truck) so I want to keep the engine as cool as possible.
_________________________
2005 Nissan Titan
Pennzoil Ultra 5w30
Royal Purple Oil Filter
Amsoil ATF
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2007 Volvo XC90 V8 AWD
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#1810988 - 03/09/10 11:51 PM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: azsynthetic]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26277
Loc: a prison island
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
You are the one that veered off topic and are not able to show any proof that I have asked for.


It's clearly pertinent to the topic when people think that it will lower their coolant temperature, when the thermostat controls that very same coolant to that very same temperature.
_________________________
2003 Nissan Navara ZD30 TD, 4L Penrite racing 5W30, 3L M1 5W50
1997 Statesman Caprice, L67 (10psi), Shell Helix 15W40.
Briggs Quantum, Nulon 5W20


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#1811000 - 03/10/10 12:01 AM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: Gary Allan]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Let me add that the only way I can wrap around azsythetic's conceptual view is in the case of a heating system. The thermostat doesn't "maintain" the heat. It's merely a switch to actuate the heat maintenance device (furnace- whatever). The flaw in that concept is that an automobile engine is not in the heat maintenance business. That's the job of the cooling system. Heat is merely a byproduct of the operation. The thermostat manages that heat production to maintain it within narrow confines. In a heating system it would require 24/7 operation with the thermostat opening your door to the cold to provide a comparable view.


My GOD!!!, someone actually understands what I was saying. You are right about the Honeywell culture also. I quit being a regular Honeywell employee and came back in as a consultant for more money and less corporate propaganda.

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#1811539 - 03/10/10 12:13 PM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: Gary Allan]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 6187
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Let me add that the only way I can wrap around azsythetic's conceptual view is in the case of a heating system. The thermostat doesn't "maintain" the heat. It's merely a switch to actuate the heat maintenance device (furnace- whatever).


But in that application too, the thermostat CONTROLS (regulates, maintains, limits, use any verb you want) the temperature in the space being heated by the heating system. Thermostats are inherently control devices, just like a light switch is a control device. They've existed so long that their purpose (controlling engine temperature) isn't patentable- which is why patents only state something unique about the mechanism by which they work- balanced against water forces or not, actuated by a bimetallic spring or a wax pellet, that sort of thing. As you know, there is NO other control element in an automotive cooling system. A radiator is not a control device, it is passive. The flame in a furnace isn't a control device, it is just a heat source. The engine isn't a control element, its also just a heat source.

Azsynthetic is all wrapped up around the fact that the only direct action the thermostat takes is to regulate water flow- but that is totally irrelevant to its purpose for existing. That's why I brought up the light switch- the only direct action it takes is to allow or interrupt the flow of electrons... but who really cares about that? The goal is to turn the light on or off. Controlling water flow just the MEANS by which it controls engine temperature, just as interrupting the flow of electrons is the MEANS by which a light switch turns off lights.

Given all that, its perfectly clear (to anyone who thinks it through and doesn't go off down a rabbit trail looking at the wording on patents) that even if these additives double or triple or quintiple the heat transfer rate across the water/metal junction, they will not (and in fact CANnot) change the temperature of the water exiting the engine, because that temperature is controlled by the thermostat.

Quote:
The thermostat manages that heat production to maintain it within narrow confines.


Which is what you, Shannow, I, Boss302fan, and everyone else have been saying all along in this whole miserable thread, and which Az keeps denying over and over again.
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#1811769 - 03/10/10 02:43 PM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: 440Magnum]
Gary Allan Offline


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 39806
Loc: Pottstown, PA
I agree with you. That's why I prefaced it by saying "the only way". I've worked in human services. It's filled with artsy-faurtcy types that reword stuff in creative ways. I do it too. Creative analogs.

It's also agreed that regardless of how Water Wetter or whatever does in increasing thermal conductivity, the temp of the outlet water won't be reduced. Nothing stops it from exceeding that setpoint if system capacity is marginal/undersized.

I've met the head tech guy for Evans Coolant. They used to be down the street. I have also talked with a couple of their tech people (socially) and they'll tell you outright that nothing is going to compensate for too high an output with too little system capacity. They can prevent you from boiling over.
_________________________
http://lube-direct.com/gallan/

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#1814444 - 03/12/10 11:39 AM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: 440Magnum]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

But in that application too, the thermostat CONTROLS (regulates, maintains, limits, use any verb you want) the temperature in the space being heated by the heating system.


You just don't get it. It CONTROLS the flow of coolant and not the temperature. It "DEPENDS" on the "temperature" of the coolant to "CONTROL" the flow of coolant. The technicality of it escapes you.


Edited by azsynthetic (03/12/10 11:40 AM)

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#1814466 - 03/12/10 12:00 PM Re: Redline Water Wetter and Royal Purple Purple I [Re: 440Magnum]
azsynthetic Offline


Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 1221
Loc: Phoenix AZ
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

Azsynthetic is all wrapped up around the fact that the only direct action the thermostat takes is to regulate water flow- but that is totally irrelevant to its purpose for existing.


What would happen if you installed the thermostat backward? Would it still control the temperature like you have suggested and why not?

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