How would a filter make a engine quieter?
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at startup keeps oil in the filter.. via the drainback valve.. sometimes a filter can restrict flow and cause valve train noise also.. due to lack of flow if the bypass valve sucks..
JHZR2
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startup. otherwise in reality it cant
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
startup. otherwise in reality it cant
Well, it can, but not without some other issue involved. I've heard/seen people have a lingering HLA noise with (something like)a PureOne that wasn't present with (something like) an older Premium Plus. There has to be a loose or worn pump gear involved or something of that nature.
startup. otherwise in reality it cant
Well, it can, but not without some other issue involved. I've heard/seen people have a lingering HLA noise with (something like)a PureOne that wasn't present with (something like) an older Premium Plus. There has to be a loose or worn pump gear involved or something of that nature.
On some engines, the smaller, highe efficiency (resitrictive) filters can cause engine noise when engine/oil is cold.
Originally Posted By: Dieseldoctor
at startup keeps oil in the filter.. via the drainback valve.. sometimes a filter can restrict flow and cause valve train noise also.. due to lack of flow if the bypass valve sucks..
100% Agree.
Have had vehicles with poor/failed ADBV's that had my vehicle sounding like a sewing machine closing up a bag of ball bearings and pepsi cans at startup. Noise went away once the engine achieved full oil pressure and flow ( 10-20 seconds ). Also went away with a new filter with a properly functioning/better quality ADBV.
I have also had vehicles with a lot of valve train noise with more restrictive filters while under load and warmed up. My 05 4.0L Tacoma did this BIG TIME! That thing sounded like the VT had NO oil while driving @ 1700-2000+ RPM's. Swapping to a better flowing brand of filter reduced/eliminated the noise. It should be noted that this situation more than likely happens due to poor oil flow in the engine design.
at startup keeps oil in the filter.. via the drainback valve.. sometimes a filter can restrict flow and cause valve train noise also.. due to lack of flow if the bypass valve sucks..
100% Agree.
Have had vehicles with poor/failed ADBV's that had my vehicle sounding like a sewing machine closing up a bag of ball bearings and pepsi cans at startup. Noise went away once the engine achieved full oil pressure and flow ( 10-20 seconds ). Also went away with a new filter with a properly functioning/better quality ADBV.
I have also had vehicles with a lot of valve train noise with more restrictive filters while under load and warmed up. My 05 4.0L Tacoma did this BIG TIME! That thing sounded like the VT had NO oil while driving @ 1700-2000+ RPM's. Swapping to a better flowing brand of filter reduced/eliminated the noise. It should be noted that this situation more than likely happens due to poor oil flow in the engine design.
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Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: Dieseldoctor
at startup keeps oil in the filter.. via the drainback valve.. sometimes a filter can restrict flow and cause valve train noise also.. due to lack of flow if the bypass valve sucks..
100% Agree.
Have had vehicles with poor/failed ADBV's that had my vehicle sounding like a sewing machine closing up a bag of ball bearings and pepsi cans at startup. Noise went away once the engine achieved full oil pressure and flow ( 10-20 seconds ). Also went away with a new filter with a properly functioning/better quality ADBV.
I have also had vehicles with a lot of valve train noise with more restrictive filters while under load and warmed up. My 05 4.0L Tacoma did this BIG TIME! That thing sounded like the VT had NO oil while driving @ 1700-2000+ RPM's. Swapping to a better flowing brand of filter reduced/eliminated the noise. It should be noted that this situation more than likely happens due to poor oil flow in the engine design.
Right on. Seen those cases frequently.
Originally Posted By: Dieseldoctor
at startup keeps oil in the filter.. via the drainback valve.. sometimes a filter can restrict flow and cause valve train noise also.. due to lack of flow if the bypass valve sucks..
100% Agree.
Have had vehicles with poor/failed ADBV's that had my vehicle sounding like a sewing machine closing up a bag of ball bearings and pepsi cans at startup. Noise went away once the engine achieved full oil pressure and flow ( 10-20 seconds ). Also went away with a new filter with a properly functioning/better quality ADBV.
I have also had vehicles with a lot of valve train noise with more restrictive filters while under load and warmed up. My 05 4.0L Tacoma did this BIG TIME! That thing sounded like the VT had NO oil while driving @ 1700-2000+ RPM's. Swapping to a better flowing brand of filter reduced/eliminated the noise. It should be noted that this situation more than likely happens due to poor oil flow in the engine design.
Right on. Seen those cases frequently.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have also had vehicles with a lot of valve train noise with more restrictive filters while under load and warmed up. My 05 4.0L Tacoma did this BIG TIME! That thing sounded like the VT had NO oil while driving @ 1700-2000+ RPM's. Swapping to a better flowing brand of filter reduced/eliminated the noise. It should be noted that this situation more than likely happens due to poor oil flow in the engine design.
Hummm ... what filter was on the Tacoma in that case?
I've used both the larger Toyota OEM and also long version PureONE on my 2005 Tacoma 4.0L V6, and it's quiet at any RPM. I don't baby the truck either ... she really scoots above 4000 RPM.
I have also had vehicles with a lot of valve train noise with more restrictive filters while under load and warmed up. My 05 4.0L Tacoma did this BIG TIME! That thing sounded like the VT had NO oil while driving @ 1700-2000+ RPM's. Swapping to a better flowing brand of filter reduced/eliminated the noise. It should be noted that this situation more than likely happens due to poor oil flow in the engine design.
Hummm ... what filter was on the Tacoma in that case?
I've used both the larger Toyota OEM and also long version PureONE on my 2005 Tacoma 4.0L V6, and it's quiet at any RPM. I don't baby the truck either ... she really scoots above 4000 RPM.
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The fringe stuff will always stand out. As was noted it's usually coupled with some other characteristic or niche design thing ..or just plain defect in either the filter or the engine.
The Nissan Titan V8 has an oddity. There some filters maintain a static pressure indication. I think this oil pump is like a progressive vane pump where the volume increases rpm due to some centrifugal thingie. There you can apparently read the filter's PSID as it translates to increased upstream pressure since you're always in relief. Let's say it's always going to try to maintain 40 psi (whatever center span is on the gauge - 40 for our discussion). One member had WIX filters (or PureOne - whichever it was) cause the gauge to ride high until warm up. The other filter would not.
Now both filters produced elevated pressure at about 3000rpm +. This I reasoned that the internal relief had reached its limits at maintaining this regulated given pressure regardless of engine speed. I can't find the image of the pump ..but it was unconventional, relatively speaking, for automotive applications.
The Nissan Titan V8 has an oddity. There some filters maintain a static pressure indication. I think this oil pump is like a progressive vane pump where the volume increases rpm due to some centrifugal thingie. There you can apparently read the filter's PSID as it translates to increased upstream pressure since you're always in relief. Let's say it's always going to try to maintain 40 psi (whatever center span is on the gauge - 40 for our discussion). One member had WIX filters (or PureOne - whichever it was) cause the gauge to ride high until warm up. The other filter would not.
Now both filters produced elevated pressure at about 3000rpm +. This I reasoned that the internal relief had reached its limits at maintaining this regulated given pressure regardless of engine speed. I can't find the image of the pump ..but it was unconventional, relatively speaking, for automotive applications.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The Nissan Titan V8 has an oddity. There some filters maintain a static pressure indication. I think this oil pump is like a progressive vane pump where the volume increases rpm due to some centrifugal thingie. There you can apparently read the filter's PSID as it translates to increased upstream pressure since you're always in relief. Let's say it's always going to try to maintain 40 psi (whatever center span is on the gauge - 40 for our discussion). One member had WIX filters (or PureOne - whichever it was) cause the gauge to ride high until warm up. The other filter would not.
Sounds like one filter was more restrictive than the other. The pump would stay in relief mode longer with a more restrictive filter, and go out of relief later after the oil warmed up (thinned out) enough to cause the pump to go out of relief.
The Nissan Titan V8 has an oddity. There some filters maintain a static pressure indication. I think this oil pump is like a progressive vane pump where the volume increases rpm due to some centrifugal thingie. There you can apparently read the filter's PSID as it translates to increased upstream pressure since you're always in relief. Let's say it's always going to try to maintain 40 psi (whatever center span is on the gauge - 40 for our discussion). One member had WIX filters (or PureOne - whichever it was) cause the gauge to ride high until warm up. The other filter would not.
Sounds like one filter was more restrictive than the other. The pump would stay in relief mode longer with a more restrictive filter, and go out of relief later after the oil warmed up (thinned out) enough to cause the pump to go out of relief.
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Sure. One filter was apparently more statically restrictive than the other. The pump was always in some level of relief. When the less statically restrictive filter was in use, the gauge was at a constant level ..idle ..cruise ..cold ..hot..anything except 3000+rpm. Not normally possible with oil as it warms.
Again, both filters (or probably NO FILTER) allowed the gauge to climb at a given rpm threshold. The difference being that the restrictive one did it until warm up. This, or so I reason, was when the oddball relief ran out of ability to compensate.
I wish I could find the image.
Again, both filters (or probably NO FILTER) allowed the gauge to climb at a given rpm threshold. The difference being that the restrictive one did it until warm up. This, or so I reason, was when the oddball relief ran out of ability to compensate.
I wish I could find the image.
Because an engine that should have a filter but is run without one gets incredibly noisier just before seizure. The noise does not happen with the filter installed; ergo, quieter engine.
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have also had vehicles with a lot of valve train noise with more restrictive filters while under load and warmed up. My 05 4.0L Tacoma did this BIG TIME! That thing sounded like the VT had NO oil while driving @ 1700-2000+ RPM's. Swapping to a better flowing brand of filter reduced/eliminated the noise. It should be noted that this situation more than likely happens due to poor oil flow in the engine design.
Hummm ... what filter was on the Tacoma in that case?
I've used both the larger Toyota OEM and also long version PureONE on my 2005 Tacoma 4.0L V6, and it's quiet at any RPM. I don't baby the truck either ... she really scoots above 4000 RPM.
The OE filter did it, a Bosch filter did it, and a Hastings filter did it. Swapped over to a Mobil 1 filter and it almost went away. Same results with a K&N.
This problem was common to the 4.0L Tacomas at the time I had mine. Not everyone had it( heard it? )but lots of guys on the Toyota boards with it. Many many threads about it and what filters helped and what ones didn't.
Just one of the myriad of issues with the biggest piece of crud vehicle I have ever owned.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have also had vehicles with a lot of valve train noise with more restrictive filters while under load and warmed up. My 05 4.0L Tacoma did this BIG TIME! That thing sounded like the VT had NO oil while driving @ 1700-2000+ RPM's. Swapping to a better flowing brand of filter reduced/eliminated the noise. It should be noted that this situation more than likely happens due to poor oil flow in the engine design.
Hummm ... what filter was on the Tacoma in that case?
I've used both the larger Toyota OEM and also long version PureONE on my 2005 Tacoma 4.0L V6, and it's quiet at any RPM. I don't baby the truck either ... she really scoots above 4000 RPM.
The OE filter did it, a Bosch filter did it, and a Hastings filter did it. Swapped over to a Mobil 1 filter and it almost went away. Same results with a K&N.
This problem was common to the 4.0L Tacomas at the time I had mine. Not everyone had it( heard it? )but lots of guys on the Toyota boards with it. Many many threads about it and what filters helped and what ones didn't.
Just one of the myriad of issues with the biggest piece of crud vehicle I have ever owned.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have also had vehicles with a lot of valve train noise with more restrictive filters while under load and warmed up. My 05 4.0L Tacoma did this BIG TIME! That thing sounded like the VT had NO oil while driving @ 1700-2000+ RPM's. Swapping to a better flowing brand of filter reduced/eliminated the noise. It should be noted that this situation more than likely happens due to poor oil flow in the engine design.
Hummm ... what filter was on the Tacoma in that case?
I've used both the larger Toyota OEM and also long version PureONE on my 2005 Tacoma 4.0L V6, and it's quiet at any RPM. I don't baby the truck either ... she really scoots above 4000 RPM.
The OE filter did it, a Bosch filter did it, and a Hastings filter did it. Swapped over to a Mobil 1 filter and it almost went away. Same results with a K&N.
This problem was common to the 4.0L Tacomas at the time I had mine. Not everyone had it( heard it? )but lots of guys on the Toyota boards with it. Many many threads about it and what filters helped and what ones didn't.
Just one of the myriad of issues with the biggest piece of crud vehicle I have ever owned.
Hummm ... you are the only guy that I've heard of that has said anything about the oil filter making a difference on thier 4.0L V6 Tacoma (2005+ models). I hang out on a few Tacoma boards and never heard anything about this. I DID however, hear about the "pinging" sort of noise caused by the exhaust manifolds, and there was a TSB on them to replace them with a newer design manifold. Maybe this was the noise you were hearing. I can't believe the engine would be that sensitive to oil filters without have some kind of other mechanical issue going on.
My 2005 Tacoma has been great ... no problems with mine, guess I got lucky because I know some has issues and hence there are probably 15+ TSBs out there for them.
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have also had vehicles with a lot of valve train noise with more restrictive filters while under load and warmed up. My 05 4.0L Tacoma did this BIG TIME! That thing sounded like the VT had NO oil while driving @ 1700-2000+ RPM's. Swapping to a better flowing brand of filter reduced/eliminated the noise. It should be noted that this situation more than likely happens due to poor oil flow in the engine design.
Hummm ... what filter was on the Tacoma in that case?
I've used both the larger Toyota OEM and also long version PureONE on my 2005 Tacoma 4.0L V6, and it's quiet at any RPM. I don't baby the truck either ... she really scoots above 4000 RPM.
The OE filter did it, a Bosch filter did it, and a Hastings filter did it. Swapped over to a Mobil 1 filter and it almost went away. Same results with a K&N.
This problem was common to the 4.0L Tacomas at the time I had mine. Not everyone had it( heard it? )but lots of guys on the Toyota boards with it. Many many threads about it and what filters helped and what ones didn't.
Just one of the myriad of issues with the biggest piece of crud vehicle I have ever owned.
Hummm ... you are the only guy that I've heard of that has said anything about the oil filter making a difference on thier 4.0L V6 Tacoma (2005+ models). I hang out on a few Tacoma boards and never heard anything about this. I DID however, hear about the "pinging" sort of noise caused by the exhaust manifolds, and there was a TSB on them to replace them with a newer design manifold. Maybe this was the noise you were hearing. I can't believe the engine would be that sensitive to oil filters without have some kind of other mechanical issue going on.
My 2005 Tacoma has been great ... no problems with mine, guess I got lucky because I know some has issues and hence there are probably 15+ TSBs out there for them.
No, that noise is the exhaust leak sound noise heard mainly at idle which I also had. Toyota came out with a new manifold to fix it but it didn't do so. Trust me I am aware of ALL the various noises the 05+ Tacoma made from squeaky springs and cab mounts, to the exhaust noise, to poor windshield seal causing whistling while at highway speeds, to everything in the interior squeaking and rattling, and to the filter issue. If the Tacoma made a nosie mine had the issue among the countless other problems as well.
In the 7 months I was on the various Toyota/Tacoma forums in 05 the filter issue was a pretty common problem discusssed. When my vehicle was under load the valve train sounded like it was getting no oil. Sounded like someone shaking a bag full of empty soda cans and ball bearings. Once the move was made to the M1 and K&N filters the noise significantly lessend.
Again, it was not all 4.0L's but a lot of guys had the same issue I did. It was evry common in mid 05 - early 06 when I had the vehicle. NEVER been so happy to get rid of a vehicle I owned as I was that turd!
In the 7 months I was on the various Toyota/Tacoma forums in 05 the filter issue was a pretty common problem discusssed. When my vehicle was under load the valve train sounded like it was getting no oil. Sounded like someone shaking a bag full of empty soda cans and ball bearings. Once the move was made to the M1 and K&N filters the noise significantly lessend.
Again, it was not all 4.0L's but a lot of guys had the same issue I did. It was evry common in mid 05 - early 06 when I had the vehicle. NEVER been so happy to get rid of a vehicle I owned as I was that turd!
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