Emissions Inspection via OBDII Connector

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Vikas
NYTimes article said that garages were hooking up the state test equipment to a "test pass simulator machine". Wow, does somebody make and sell test pass simulator machine to repair shops? Is Snap-On supplier for these simulator? Reputable shops only purchase from Snap-On :-_

- Vikas


I always pictured (for someone's hot rod) a "fake" OBDII connector available that hid under the dash and ran on +12v key on. There are certainly modules that fake the computer into thinking via the rear o2 signal that the cats are still there...

Mixed feelings on cali getting rid of the sniffer/treadmill on a number of shops, meaning the ones remaining will specialize in 1995 and prior. IDK if that concentrating effect will lead to greater or lesser competence and honesty...


If you want to fake a test result, there are too many ways already. What CA does is stink operations with young kids and modified cars (CAT removed) to smog, and if you ever show a hint of willing to do it, they close your shop for a week on first violation and permanently the 2nd time around.

Unless you know the owner personally, they won't do it for you.

 

[wiswind]

OBDII version of emission testing seems to be the way most places are going to.
It makes sense, saves time and labor at the testing stations, and the system is monitoring what needs to be monitored.

If you have cleared your code(s), then the OBDII system has to go through ALL of the test cycles needed before it will give the "ready" or "OK" indication.
What seems to take the longest to finish is the Catylist monitor test.

I am sure that there is a way that one could "fool" the system, but it would be more trouble and cost than just having your vehicle repaired to pass the test.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: EricF
from what I know the smog check 2 in california is for most counties, if you live in the more remote areas then smog check 2 hasn't gotten to you yet, but don't worry, the epa will find you soon!

on 1996 and newer cars the smog machine monitors readings via the obd port, IF you have a code in the computer, although the light is turned off, you failed. Of course if the light comes on during the test, you failed too. If the bulb is burned out, you failed.
I've always made sure to do a computer scan then delete anything in the computer before a smog, haven't had any issues with them telling me anything about erasing codes.
They usually let the machine make the determination.

for post 1995 cars, they inject nitrogen into the gas tank trying to force a fuel leak so they can fail you for that too.

I"m all for clean air, but the way they go about doing some of this stuff is ridiculous. Just another liberal who dreams up an idea and makes the epa implement it without thinking of issues or ramifications.
welcome to california.


I think it is good to have the smog check, because just by looking at the tolerance of the standard, you really have to have something broken to fail it. My 278k miles car failed once because of a worn O2 sensor. If your car has nothing broken, it should pass, if it fail, you should fix it.

I've dealt with childhood asthma enough to know what bad air can do to you.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: EricF

I"m all for clean air, but the way they go about doing some of this stuff is ridiculous. Just another liberal who dreams up an idea and makes the epa implement it without thinking of issues or ramifications.
welcome to california.


CARB jurisdiction > EPA because they implemented clean air rules first. So really you should be angry at CARB. Luckily for you, you only have the rest of Cali to be angry with.

 

[swalve]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Illinois has had OBD2 for years.
They destroyed engines and transmissions with load testing.


Yeah, I knew there was trouble a-brewing when they drove my beat to heck 90 Shadow onto the rollers at an angle. When they stomped on the gas, it very nearly busted loose. Still passed the test though.

I think the theory behind computer-only checks is that [somebody] has verified that the on board computer can accurately detect problems that might cause poor emmissions. (Most likely, the downstream O2 is a big part of it.) Once they know the on board computer is working right, they can safely assume that nearly all cars with that model of computer are being monitored correctly.

I've had cars that ran like garbage pass the test, cars whose diag lights go on and off constantly pass the test, and even a car that I knew darn well wasn't running quite right (low MPG) pass the test. A car must have to be a real POS to fail.

(But this is in IL, where there are no independent shops to do the testing. I would imagine in states where you have to go to a repair shop to get your test done, they are going to be much more thorough. It's a money maker for them.)

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: OilNerd
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: Trav

The company who makes the OBD simulator is Ease,its a programmable unit for checking new OBDII testing equipment.


I had never heard of such a thing! Is it simulating a car for the OBD-II testing equipment? Do you have URL handy for this simulator?
...


From the Ease Web site:
http://www.obd2.com/emissions/data/emissions_ver_test.htm

According to their web site, it has safeguards that should make it easy for software to spot its use in an emissions testing program.



We have a few older units from the late 90s and there appears to be no such safeguard.These are a grey tin box with black knobs.
We used them last when we implemented the program in the Chicago area a couple of years ago.

 

[OilNerd]

Thanks for posting. I was wondering if it was another model or if the NYS emissions software was really that easily fooled.

 

[Vikas]

I still do not get it. If I run a shop, what is in for me to purchase the "Ease" simulator? I would think I would have enough intelligence to know that if my emission tester is broken or not when I hook it up to dozens of cars every day. Besides, most likely, the emission tester is either property of the state or it is maintained by the state.

It is certainly possible that not all shop owners run with the full deck of cards but then they will not be in the business for long

Tell me what I am missing.

- Vikas

 

[Ryan]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: EricF
from what I know the smog check 2 in california is for most counties, if you live in the more remote areas then smog check 2 hasn't gotten to you yet, but don't worry, the epa will find you soon!

on 1996 and newer cars the smog machine monitors readings via the obd port, IF you have a code in the computer, although the light is turned off, you failed. Of course if the light comes on during the test, you failed too. If the bulb is burned out, you failed.
I've always made sure to do a computer scan then delete anything in the computer before a smog, haven't had any issues with them telling me anything about erasing codes.
They usually let the machine make the determination.

for post 1995 cars, they inject nitrogen into the gas tank trying to force a fuel leak so they can fail you for that too.

I"m all for clean air, but the way they go about doing some of this stuff is ridiculous. Just another liberal who dreams up an idea and makes the epa implement it without thinking of issues or ramifications.
welcome to california.


I think it is good to have the smog check, because just by looking at the tolerance of the standard, you really have to have something broken to fail it. My 278k miles car failed once because of a worn O2 sensor. If your car has nothing broken, it should pass, if it fail, you should fix it.

I've dealt with childhood asthma enough to know what bad air can do to you.


This is true, although the OBD II testing is more strict than the sniffer test in my opinion. Back in the day when I did state inspections, we were doing the sniffer tests on cars at idle, then later on we went to the OBD II testing. On the sniffer test at idle, your car had to pretty much have a major problem to fail. If I remember correctly, the car had to be below 220PPM of HC I think it was? Anyways, most cars will blow about 50PPM. One car with the GM 3.8 came in with one of the plugs fouled out. It blew about 1200PPM. I had a feeling she was the type of lady who would have never fixed the dog gone spark plug if she didn't have to. I bet it would pass with flying colors if she fixed it. I don't know if she ever fixed it or not. My point is, it would be nice not to have the government monitor how our cars run, but it is mostly because people who don't take care of their cars with usually simple problems like fouled out plugs that cause us to have to do these checks.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I still do not get it. If I run a shop, what is in for me to purchase the "Ease" simulator? I would think I would have enough intelligence to know that if my emission tester is broken or not when I hook it up to dozens of cars every day. Besides, most likely, the emission tester is either property of the state or it is maintained by the state.

It is certainly possible that not all shop owners run with the full deck of cards but then they will not be in the business for long

Tell me what I am missing.
1
- Vikas



That's why most people don't bother passing a failing car for stranger nowadays, and charge ridiculous amount to pass a teenagers' CAT-less car (last time I heard the going rate is $200-300 each test).

Most people I know who don't want to use a cat or mod their car beyond street emission limit (i.e. aftermarket turbo) first convert their car to propane, and waive the cars' need for smog forever, then they boost it). Another way if you are staying natural aspire is to put the CAT on every time before you need to smog, and remove it afterward. Expensive and a waste of time? Yes. That's why most non-track going people don't bother with it.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I still do not get it. If I run a shop, what is in for me to purchase the "Ease" simulator? I would think I would have enough intelligence to know that if my emission tester is broken or not when I hook it up to dozens of cars every day. Besides, most likely, the emission tester is either property of the state or it is maintained by the state.

It is certainly possible that not all shop owners run with the full deck of cards but then they will not be in the business for long

Tell me what I am missing.

- Vikas


There is no point whatsoever in owning one of these tools unless you are the business of running emission testing programs.
Even if a shop had one and decided to use it for illegal stickers they would be caught in a short time.
States run overt and covert audits with control cars and random calibration testing/auditing of sniffer/dyno eqipment.
It may have some limited uses in testing large shop equipment or as an educational simulator.

Random compliance checks are done by the RMV,program implementer and DEP,if one of these units were found in the inspection bay there would be
problems for the station.When we ran the contract in MA which had 1280 independent stations it was normal to suspend 30-50 shops a month for violations.

 

[Vikas]

OK, that makes perfect sense. (Ease used for testing of emission equipment)

However, now a days, at least in MA, there is no sniffer tests (as far as I know). Either the OBD says your car passed or failed (or NOT READY). There is not much that shop can do unless they hook up another vehicle of similar vintage and use the result from the alternate vehicle. That is outright felony territory.

What kind violation a shop would get? How does shop verify that the car has all of the OEM exhaust? There are thousands of models. Is shop expected to know how OEM exhaust looks on all of them? Is shop obliged to notice a tiny black box between O2 sensor and ECM or worse a reprogrammed ECM?

Your ratio of 50/1280 per month sounds quite high. Assuming random variation, you are talking about 600/1280 per year i.e. in a given year half of the shops would be cited violations! That can not be right.

Come to think of it, if it is right, it just reinforces my stereotype that half of the shops are crooked

- Vikas

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
OK, that makes perfect sense. (Ease used for testing of emission equipment)

However, now a days, at least in MA, there is no sniffer tests (as far as I know). Either the OBD says your car passed or failed (or NOT READY). There is not much that shop can do unless they hook up another vehicle of similar vintage and use the result from the alternate vehicle. That is outright felony territory.

What kind violation a shop would get? How does shop verify that the car has all of the OEM exhaust? There are thousands of models. Is shop expected to know how OEM exhaust looks on all of them? Is shop obliged to notice a tiny black box between O2 sensor and ECM or worse a reprogrammed ECM?

Your ratio of 50/1280 per month sounds quite high. Assuming random variation, you are talking about 600/1280 per year i.e. in a given year half of the shops would be cited violations! That can not be right.

Come to think of it, if it is right, it just reinforces my stereotype that half of the shops are crooked

- Vikas


It really depends on the state. In Kalifornia, if you have anything that doesn't "look" OEM (i.e. stainless steel header or loud exhaust) that does not have a CARB certified label, you fail automatically. I wouldn't be surprised if 1/2 of the smog shops are crooked, because they offer free retest if fail and many of the results I got is border line failure even when 2 years ago I have near perfect results and 20% O2 in the exhaust reading? That doesn't make sense to me when the same car is getting much lower just 2 years ago and nothing changes.

50/1280 violation? It could be that they look at the statistics from the shops vs other shops and have a much higher passing ratio, so they check these shops first.

 

[Vikas]

Higher passing ratio? In Mass at least, the cars which fail are pretty rare. They don't grade on a curve! Generally, a decent shop asks innocent customer if the CEL is on or if battery was recently disconnected even before attempting to start the inspection. The norm is that vehicle will pass inspection.

I also said that 50 citations per month does not make sense if you logically extrapolate it to 600 per year.

- Vikas