Is anyone watching Dirty Jobs? They are disassembling a 13 ton, 16 cylinder train engine for rebuilding. Talk about coked piston rings and sludge coating the interior of the engine. They must not have used MMO or an anti-sludge synthetic oil. Cool episode.
Train engine rebuild on Dirty Jobs
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I have seen it. I love to watch trains. there is a small town called La Grange kentucky about 20 miles from me and the tracks run right down main street. Hope this link works....
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=213494
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=213494
It's on as I type this. I read somewhere they use special oil for locomotives that don't have any detergents in them. I was working in a refinery a while back and there was a lot of coked up equipment there.,,
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
I read somewhere they use special oil for locomotives that don't have any detergents in them.
Really? That doesn't make sense to me at all. I mean, when your engine is clean, you feel it. Right?
Seriously though, if this is true, does anyone know why?
I read somewhere they use special oil for locomotives that don't have any detergents in them.
Really? That doesn't make sense to me at all. I mean, when your engine is clean, you feel it. Right?
Seriously though, if this is true, does anyone know why?
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
It's on as I type this. I read somewhere they use special oil for locomotives that don't have any detergents in them. I was working in a refinery a while back and there was a lot of coked up equipment there.,,
New Railroad Diesel Engine Low SAP Oils
New Railroad Diesel Engine Low SAP Oils
by Johnny Petree
General Description
Times are changing thanks to new EPA emission requirements and ULSD fuel. The days of 13 - 17 TBN oils will slowly become a thing of the past as it has in the trucking industry. It’s a good thing that most railroad engines hold between 206 – 424 quarts of oil. Railroad Diesel Engine Oils will use a formulation that will satisfy EPA emission requirements, the engine needs of lower sulfur fuels and emission control systems for both new and older locomotive engines. The formulation is zinc-free for the protection of silver bearings and chlorine free to reduce environmental and disposal impact. The balanced detergent, dispersant, and anti-wear system allows this 9 TBN oil to provide superior soot, sludge, viscosity, and wear control resulting in improved engine cleanliness, lower wear and particulate emissions.
The advanced technology provides superior liner scuffing protection, reduced ring wear, and reduced piston deposits. Improved thermal and oxidative stability minimizes oil degradation, reduces sludge to provide long drain intervals and improved filter life.
These new Railroad Diesel Engine Oils will provide the proper lubrication for 2-cycle and 4-cycle naturally aspirated low output and unrestricted use in high output turbocharged engines. This includes railroad, marine, and stationary engines where zinc free oils are required.
Features and Benefits
OEM Approved: Meets GE and EMD 2008 oil specifications. Also recommended for older engines.
Fuel Economy: Multi-grade 20W-40 maintains fuel economy and cold start benefits.
Engine Protection: Excellent wear, deposit, high temperature stability, and oxidation control. Strong TBN retention providing acid neutralization all working together to extend engine life, minimizes maintenance, and improved operational efficiencies.
Zinc Free: Superior corrosion control for silver bearing and other yellow metals in these style engines.
Emission Benefits: Reduced SAPS lower particulates to help meet EPA tier 3 and 4 standards.
Extended Service: Field-testing supports extended drain intervals, filter life and lower oil consumption, which improves locomotive efficiency and reduces maintenance cost.
Typical Application
EMD Generation V
GE Generation 4 Long Life
LMOA Generation V, and Generation 4 long life
Alco, Baldwin, Fairbanks-Morse engines
Typical Customers:
Class 1 Railroads, Regional, Short Line, Yard, and Switcher engines.
All 2- and 4-cycle, naturally aspirated or turbocharged medium speed diesel engines.
Railroad, marine and stationary engines (power generation, off-shore drilling) where zinc-free oils are required.
Johnny
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70:new-railroad-diesel-engine-low-sap-oils&catid=35:content&Itemid=71
It's on as I type this. I read somewhere they use special oil for locomotives that don't have any detergents in them. I was working in a refinery a while back and there was a lot of coked up equipment there.,,
New Railroad Diesel Engine Low SAP Oils
New Railroad Diesel Engine Low SAP Oils
by Johnny Petree
General Description
Times are changing thanks to new EPA emission requirements and ULSD fuel. The days of 13 - 17 TBN oils will slowly become a thing of the past as it has in the trucking industry. It’s a good thing that most railroad engines hold between 206 – 424 quarts of oil. Railroad Diesel Engine Oils will use a formulation that will satisfy EPA emission requirements, the engine needs of lower sulfur fuels and emission control systems for both new and older locomotive engines. The formulation is zinc-free for the protection of silver bearings and chlorine free to reduce environmental and disposal impact. The balanced detergent, dispersant, and anti-wear system allows this 9 TBN oil to provide superior soot, sludge, viscosity, and wear control resulting in improved engine cleanliness, lower wear and particulate emissions.
The advanced technology provides superior liner scuffing protection, reduced ring wear, and reduced piston deposits. Improved thermal and oxidative stability minimizes oil degradation, reduces sludge to provide long drain intervals and improved filter life.
These new Railroad Diesel Engine Oils will provide the proper lubrication for 2-cycle and 4-cycle naturally aspirated low output and unrestricted use in high output turbocharged engines. This includes railroad, marine, and stationary engines where zinc free oils are required.
Features and Benefits
OEM Approved: Meets GE and EMD 2008 oil specifications. Also recommended for older engines.
Fuel Economy: Multi-grade 20W-40 maintains fuel economy and cold start benefits.
Engine Protection: Excellent wear, deposit, high temperature stability, and oxidation control. Strong TBN retention providing acid neutralization all working together to extend engine life, minimizes maintenance, and improved operational efficiencies.
Zinc Free: Superior corrosion control for silver bearing and other yellow metals in these style engines.
Emission Benefits: Reduced SAPS lower particulates to help meet EPA tier 3 and 4 standards.
Extended Service: Field-testing supports extended drain intervals, filter life and lower oil consumption, which improves locomotive efficiency and reduces maintenance cost.
Typical Application
EMD Generation V
GE Generation 4 Long Life
LMOA Generation V, and Generation 4 long life
Alco, Baldwin, Fairbanks-Morse engines
Typical Customers:
Class 1 Railroads, Regional, Short Line, Yard, and Switcher engines.
All 2- and 4-cycle, naturally aspirated or turbocharged medium speed diesel engines.
Railroad, marine and stationary engines (power generation, off-shore drilling) where zinc-free oils are required.
Johnny
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=70:new-railroad-diesel-engine-low-sap-oils&catid=35:content&Itemid=71
The Engine shown on Dirty Jobs was an EMD (a division of General Motors until a couple of years ago) 16V645 (16 cylinders, 645 cubic inchs per cylinder) turbocharged 2 stroke engine, this particular one rated at 3800 HP. The heavy sludge they were showing was in the air box area of the engine block, where intake air is blown into the cylinders through the windows in the cylinder liner. Since this air and the passages it moves through are exposed to the crankcase oil during during certain moments in the engine revolution, I don't think it's at all that surprising or damaging to see a fair amount of sludged up oil and coke in this area. The 2 stroke design does sort of lend itself deposits in the ring area too, especially considering the amount of time many of these engines sit around idling. This basic engine design dates to the mid 1930's, and has a stellar reputation in the locomotive, marine and stationary engine market.
I don't know about now in 2010 but I was told back in the 80s by an IC Railroad maintenance worker that they didn't change the oil in those diesel engines.
I was at the depot at Woodstock TN on Sunday afternoon when a couple guys showed up to add oil to the SW 1500 switcher that was used there to switch the Dupont facility.
They added a quarter of a 55 gallon drum of oil to the engine and when I asked them when they changed the oil, they said they didn't....just add oil.
I was at the depot at Woodstock TN on Sunday afternoon when a couple guys showed up to add oil to the SW 1500 switcher that was used there to switch the Dupont facility.
They added a quarter of a 55 gallon drum of oil to the engine and when I asked them when they changed the oil, they said they didn't....just add oil.
Hi,
2 cycle engines (depending on design) do tend to suffer air box deposits. (My comments apply to DD engines). High sulphur fuel and low engine revs under full throttle tended to exacerbate it on non Unit/EFI managed engine families. Fire ring depsoits are somewhat important above the top ring in these engines. Low SA lubricants are very important as is the regular use of maximum revs in a "clean out" mode - especially if extended period of idling is involved
Many Rail engine lubricants are Zinc free and had/have a TBN around 17. A typical Mobilgard lubricant (448) for the EMD was of SAE40 viscosity (140/14.3cSt) had a VI around 98 and a pour point of -12C with a flash point of 232C
Just a little useless infoemation.............
2 cycle engines (depending on design) do tend to suffer air box deposits. (My comments apply to DD engines). High sulphur fuel and low engine revs under full throttle tended to exacerbate it on non Unit/EFI managed engine families. Fire ring depsoits are somewhat important above the top ring in these engines. Low SA lubricants are very important as is the regular use of maximum revs in a "clean out" mode - especially if extended period of idling is involved
Many Rail engine lubricants are Zinc free and had/have a TBN around 17. A typical Mobilgard lubricant (448) for the EMD was of SAE40 viscosity (140/14.3cSt) had a VI around 98 and a pour point of -12C with a flash point of 232C
Just a little useless infoemation.............
I worked at Electro Motive and worked on those engines for 7 years.
They run pretty filthy and are not super efficient.
They are 2 stroke engines with exhaust valves.
It's kinda neat that while installed in a locomotive, you can stop the engine and replace one cylinder.
I'd like to catch that show.
They run pretty filthy and are not super efficient.
They are 2 stroke engines with exhaust valves.
It's kinda neat that while installed in a locomotive, you can stop the engine and replace one cylinder.
I'd like to catch that show.
I'd like to correct something I said earlier before someone calls me on it. The engine in question was a 16V710, engine (710 cubic inch per cylinder) not a 645 as I stated earlier. The 710, introduced in 1984, is an evolutionary upgrade of the 645 introduced in 1966, which is an upgrade from the 567 which was introduced in 1939. The 567 was loosely based on the Winton 201A engine from the early 30's.
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