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#1786446 - 02/18/10 01:57 PM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: sdude2k2000]
Samilcar Offline


Registered: 07/11/08
Posts: 1478
Loc: Iowa
Maybe. Another odd thing is that even though The MRV viscosities differ, the CCS viscosities are the same. So cold cranking would be exactly the same, but the Ultra oil would be a little harder to pump after the engine started. I'm not sure if that's a bad thing or not. shrug

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#1786559 - 02/18/10 03:45 PM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: Samilcar]
Steve S Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18449
Loc: East of IGO
Originally Posted By: Samilcar
Since CATERHAM is comparing Ultra 5W/20 to Platinum, I'll raise an issue which has been bothering me.

5W/20 Platinum has a MRV viscosity of 9700cP(-35C°), while 5W/20 Ultra has a MRV viscosity of 11700cP(-35C°).

Does anyone have any idea why Platinum 5W/20 would have a better (lower) MRV viscosity than Ultra 5W/20?
How much difference would that be in real life ? I do not know.
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Why do people post I want the best for my car,,, When there isn't anything that is the best on the car to begin with.

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#1786721 - 02/18/10 06:05 PM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: panthermike]
Ben99GT Offline


Registered: 02/25/05
Posts: 4303
Loc: MS
Originally Posted By: panthermike
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

You guys have got to be joking!
With a VI of only 158 there are 20wt dino's that are better.
PP's own 0W-20 is clearly a much better 20wt oil with a 175 VI that's proven to be very shear stable. OK you could argue it's not OTC but that's should be a separate issue.

If you guys want to know what a superb 20wt VOA looks like check out Toyota's 0W-20 (Honda's is very close as well)and since you can get it at any Toyota or Lexus dealer in NA it certainly qualifies as an OTC oil.



Why are you basing everything on VI? LOL


+1


+2
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2001 F150 Supercrew
1991 Mustang LX notch
1999 Mustang GT


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#1787194 - 02/19/10 07:35 AM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: sdude2k2000]
NightRiderQ45 Offline


Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 929
Loc: Houston, TX
I'm sorry, but I don't see a real difference between this and PP. Not worth the extra dollars!
_________________________
2002 Lexus GS300 120k My NEW baby
1998 FGY33 Infiniti Q45 257k....RIP


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#1787361 - 02/19/10 10:22 AM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: NightRiderQ45]
unDummy Offline


Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 8756
Loc: RI
For those with OLM's and those who don't want to change their oil as often, the 13 TBN is a plus.

MRV difference is meaningless. Love to see them do an MRV/CCV test with both Platinum and Ultra after 10k miles of usage.

If its the 1st SN/GF5 oil, then I would use it over any GF4 OTC oil. Sorry, but as the spec's get more demanding, the performance of the oil only gets better.

The only question I have is when is it coming out in 0w20, 0w30, 0w40, 5w40, & 10w40? Castrol Edge's biggest flaw was lack of weights that I could use.

With API/ILSAC SN/GF5 oils coming on the market hopefully in the next year, I have a feeling that Amsoil, Redline, Royalpurple... will need to rethink their marketing.

Can't wait to see what SN/GF5 brings to Mobil1, Castrol.....and the other OTC brands.
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#1787587 - 02/19/10 02:02 PM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: Samilcar]
Tempest Offline


Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 10468
Loc: Las Vegas NV
Originally Posted By: Samilcar

Does anyone have any idea why Platinum 5W/20 would have a better (lower) MRV viscosity than Ultra 5W/20?

Hopefully less plastic.
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#1787596 - 02/19/10 02:11 PM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: NightRiderQ45]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 25907
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
I'm sorry, but I don't see a real difference between this and PP. Not worth the extra dollars!

Like it was stated earlier, there isn't really much to see in a $20 analysis. There could be differences between them that we will never know about.
_________________________
'02 530i (PU 5W-40)
'08 C300 4Matic (M1 0W-40)
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#1787796 - 02/19/10 05:18 PM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: buster]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9555
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: buster
Very impressive! This may be the ultimate oil! LOL

Seriously, Shell said they made Ultra for those that want "the best". For the $$ they may be right.


I agree, we might just be looking at the best OTC motor oil ever made! This certainly appears on paper that it can compete with the best of the boutique oils.


You guys have got to be joking!
With a VI of only 158 there are 20wt dino's that are better.
PP's own 0W-20 is clearly a much better 20wt oil with a 175 VI that's proven to be very shear stable. OK you could argue it's not OTC but that's should be a separate issue.

If you guys want to know what a superb 20wt VOA looks like check out Toyota's 0W-20 (Honda's is very close as well)and since you can get it at any Toyota or Lexus dealer in NA it certainly qualifies as an OTC oil.



Why are you basing everything on VI? LOL


When it comes to PCMO, 20wt in particular, for most applications you will benefit from the lowest start-up viscosity possible. That's the main reason to pay the additional cost in switching from a dino to a syn oil in the first place.
The best indicator of how light an oil is at typical start-up temps is the 40C vis spec' and that is what I look at first in comparing 20wt oils. Usually the oils with the lowest 40C vis also have the highest VI's, RP (XRP) is about the only exception I'm aware of.
So yes I consider a high VI to be important. Incidently, most auto mfr's spec' high VI oils.
In that regard a few come to mind: M1 5W-30 VI 170(Corvette), M1 0W-40 VI 186 (Porsche,Mercedes etc) Honda's 0W-20 VI 200, Toyota's 0W-20 VI 214.
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74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
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94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#1788127 - 02/19/10 09:51 PM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: unDummy]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21291
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: unDummy
For those with OLM's and those who don't want to change their oil as often, the 13 TBN is a plus.

MRV difference is meaningless. Love to see them do an MRV/CCV test with both Platinum and Ultra after 10k miles of usage.

If its the 1st SN/GF5 oil, then I would use it over any GF4 OTC oil. Sorry, but as the spec's get more demanding, the performance of the oil only gets better.

The only question I have is when is it coming out in 0w20, 0w30, 0w40, 5w40, & 10w40? Castrol Edge's biggest flaw was lack of weights that I could use.

With API/ILSAC SN/GF5 oils coming on the market hopefully in the next year, I have a feeling that Amsoil, Redline, Royalpurple... will need to rethink their marketing.

Can't wait to see what SN/GF5 brings to Mobil1, Castrol.....and the other OTC brands.


+1

What happens with companies like RP, Amsoil and RL that don't actually pay for the API certifications for all or most of their product lines? Do they reformulate, or, test their products and then change the label to say meets or exceeds the API SN GF-5?

I'm not looking for a flame war, I really would like to know. Seems they would have an easier time dealing with it.
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#1788196 - 02/19/10 10:56 PM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: demarpaint]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46680
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: demarpaint


What happens with companies like RP, Amsoil and RL that don't actually pay for the API certifications for all or most of their product lines? Do they reformulate, or, test their products and then change the label to say meets or exceeds the API SN GF-5?

I'm not looking for a flame war, I really would like to know. Seems they would have an easier time dealing with it.


With GF-4, Amsoil reformulated to meet the P requirement. There will be no need to reformulate to meet GF-5.

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#1788305 - 02/20/10 05:34 AM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: Pablo]
demarpaint Offline


Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 21291
Loc: NY
Thanks for the info. They nailed GF5 SN rating with the GF-4 reformulation? My quess is the change from GF-4 to GF-5 was minor across the board, and Amsoil builds a good oil.
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#1790206 - 02/21/10 10:33 PM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: demarpaint]
Nick R Offline


Registered: 07/14/09
Posts: 10551
Loc: NEO
niiice looking oil. That is the mostboron ive ever seen in a oil before. Still wish there was more moly but 50 is a nice respectable number and the tbn of 13... Whoa.
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13 Ford Focus SE 2.0L/36,000miles/Pennz Plat PurePlus 0W-20/FRAM Ultra

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#1795833 - 02/26/10 09:46 AM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: Nick R]
unDummy Offline


Registered: 02/01/03
Posts: 8756
Loc: RI
The lesser oils will need to be reformulated for the newest performance specs. The better oils won't need to as much.
To me, this means that they're constantly narrowing the performance gap between OTC and boutique.

E85 rust protection is important 'cause E10 is forced on me.

And, whether you have a turbo or not, turbo protection improvements should make the oil more robust.

The question is "are mineral oils becoming obsolete?"

http://www.gf-5.com/the_story/performance/

I filled the '08 Highlander with Ultra 5w30 this past weekend. Its pricey ~$28 for 5-quarts at wallyword. But, ~$6 a quart for an excellent oil is reasonable.
_________________________
Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt the person doing it.
Your automaker lied!
Is this a spelling/grammar forum or BITOG?

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#1796207 - 02/26/10 01:51 PM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: unDummy]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29188
Loc: NJ
Quote:
The lesser oils will need to be reformulated for the newest performance specs. The better oils won't need to as much.
To me, this means that they're constantly narrowing the performance gap between OTC and boutique.


That is how I see it as well.
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#1803319 - 03/04/10 10:56 AM Re: NEW*** Pennzoil Ultra 5/20 [Re: buster]
lonestar Offline


Registered: 07/26/06
Posts: 189
Loc: Texas
Guys, I think some of you are missing it when talking about DI engines. In a DI engine there is no fuel with its cleaning additives washing across the intake valves. An oil with a higher NOACK % could result in a situation like in the picture of the VW engine earlier in this thread. Is it speculated, although I can not substantiate it or immediately provide documentation, that an oil with a NOACK % over 10 at the most should not be put in a DI engine be it turbo or not. A UOA is not going to give you any hint of deposits developing on the valves.

I have DI engine and based on UOAs for that engine the UOA section the OLM is about 50% optimistic. The manual calls for a 5W30 SM GF-4 oil. I suspect the manufacture is hoping that the SM GF-4 oil used by the majority has a NOACK% of no more than 10.
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