Motor oil question for a race car

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
I've never heard of RL's race oils having higher ester content than their street oils, but I just sent Dave at RL an e-mail asking him about this. In fact, I've always understood that Redline uses the optimum amount of POE for the desired seal swell/polarity characteristics, cutting it with PAO (used as their additive carrier) to keep it in check.

If Dave replies that the race oil has a higher ester content, I will be surprised. All the more surprised considering their race oils and the street oils are roughly the same price.



I'd REALLY like to know this info as well!!

PLEASE post Dave's response.

IF that is the case, then it looks like I will be throwing in a quart or two of the Racing 30, or 40 weight at my next change.


I never got a reply, probably the first time I haven't gotten a reply from Redline.


Well, I did get a reply it was just buried in my mail box.

Originally Posted By: Dave @ Red Line
Ben,

Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, the Race Oils and Motor Oils contain the same base stocks, the differences is the additive packages being optimized for each intended use.

Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil


So there you have it, the race oils and street oils have same amount of esters. Which makes sense based on what I've heard from RL in the past, that they use the max amount of esters that is considered optimal for motor oils and cut it with a PAO additive carrier.

 

[Mitch Alsup]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
Mitch, what oil do you use in your F355?


Sorry for taking so long to get back to you.

I am currently running ELF 5W-40 oil (for its ZDDP levels), I have run Redline {10W-30, 5W-40}, AMSoil {5W-40} and Mobil {5W-40 T&SUV now TDT}.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
0W-40 or 10W-40 HM Mobil 1 should both be fine.

I have read a [censored] load of info the past year or so and if it was my car I would lean towards the Mobil 1 HM 10W-40 which is a HEAVY 10W/40 oil. Higher levels of zinc/phos and the numbers from tests have looked very good if not excellent. I consider the HM oils from Mobil 1 to be possibly the best oils they make.

15W50 Mobil 1 is also excellent but I still think that it is to heavy to run in most engines. Depending on the application, newer engine builds would be better off with 10W/30 or 10W/40 mobil 1 HM oils. Just my opinion...LOL.

I have a recently rebuilt original Boss 302 engine(most street use 460 HP) and my builder recommended Mobil 1 15W/50. like I said before I think that is to heavy. Very hard not to listen too your rebuilder especially if he is considered one of the top Shelby/Mustang street/race builders in the world since the early 70's. 60 year old guy that still believes in the heavy stuff. LOL.
Do you think you builder sees the engines returned to him ? Racers go through engines and need refreshing and rebuilding so the builder know what oils do the best job. Every thing is a compromise ,thinner oil maybe more wear less life, thicker oil maybe more life. How much $$$ will you make winning the races? If ther is big $$$ to be won I would do everything to win as the engine rebuild will be covered by the winnings and contengcy $$$ .If there is no $$ to win a longer engine life between overhauls seem to make sence, What do the other racers run?

 

[Scott_Tucker]

I've seen Roy Howell (who is the chief chemist at Redline and majority stock holder) lecture several times. One thing I remember from every one of his lectures was that someone would inevitably ask, "Should I use racing oil in my car?". He would sarcastically shrug his shoulders and say, "What's racing oil?". Obviously, he knows what racing oil is. His point was that you have to look at both what is and isn't in the oil and what you intend to do with it. He stated that the base stock is the same as street oil as Dave mentioned in his email. The difference is mainly in the additive package.

Racing oil does not have (or has very little) detergent in it. The reason for this is because the detergents have a tendency to increase the propensity of the fuel to detonate should any oil find its way into the air/fuel mixture, which is somewhat unavoidable. It also has a tendency to turn into ash in the ring pack where temperatures are very high on high performance/high speed engines. This can cause the rings to stick. However, this lack of detergent allows sludge and varnish to develop if it is not changed often. Racing oil also has more high pressure additives included (such as ZDDP) which helps protect the engine from high temperature and loads.

Street oils on the other hand have detergents and dispersant which help clean the engine and keep parts (especially the rings) free of sludge and varnish. They also have lower amounts of high pressure additives partially for cost reasons but also because both detergents and high pressure additives are polar molecules and tend to compete for real estate in the engine so they need to be added in the proper proportions.

So you have to look at the requirements of the oil. In the OP's case he probably doesn't have the budget to be replacing synthetic oil after every race. Also because its a stock engine its not really super high performance although he does keep it wound out a lot. Also, he's racing on dirt and some of that dirt will find its way into the engine. In this case you would want something that will keep the engine clean. I think a street oil would be the way too go. You want to use the thinnest oil possible because there will be the lowest parasitic losses from the engine, therefore it will make the most power. It will take some experimenting to find out what gives the best power vs amount of protection you want. It sounds like he is already winning races so using something relatively thick like 10w-40 would probably be ideal. He probably doesn't need anything thicker.

 

[OceanRocket24]

Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
I've seen Roy Howell (who is the chief chemist at Redline and majority stock holder) lecture several times. One thing I remember from every one of his lectures was that someone would inevitably ask, "Should I use racing oil in my car?". He would sarcastically shrug his shoulders and say, "What's racing oil?". Obviously, he knows what racing oil is. His point was that you have to look at both what is and isn't in the oil and what you intend to do with it. He stated that the base stock is the same as street oil as Dave mentioned in his email. The difference is mainly in the additive package.

Racing oil does not have (or has very little) detergent in it. The reason for this is because the detergents have a tendency to increase the propensity of the fuel to detonate should any oil find its way into the air/fuel mixture, which is somewhat unavoidable. It also has a tendency to turn into ash in the ring pack where temperatures are very high on high performance/high speed engines. This can cause the rings to stick. However, this lack of detergent allows sludge and varnish to develop if it is not changed often. Racing oil also has more high pressure additives included (such as ZDDP) which helps protect the engine from high temperature and loads.

Street oils on the other hand have detergents and dispersant which help clean the engine and keep parts (especially the rings) free of sludge and varnish. They also have lower amounts of high pressure additives partially for cost reasons but also because both detergents and high pressure additives are polar molecules and tend to compete for real estate in the engine so they need to be added in the proper proportions.

So you have to look at the requirements of the oil. In the OP's case he probably doesn't have the budget to be replacing synthetic oil after every race. Also because its a stock engine its not really super high performance although he does keep it wound out a lot. Also, he's racing on dirt and some of that dirt will find its way into the engine. In this case you would want something that will keep the engine clean. I think a street oil would be the way too go. You want to use the thinnest oil possible because there will be the lowest parasitic losses from the engine, therefore it will make the most power. It will take some experimenting to find out what gives the best power vs amount of protection you want. It sounds like he is already winning races so using something relatively thick like 10w-40 would probably be ideal. He probably doesn't need anything thicker.



I am glad to see that people are still posting to this thread! And I wanted to thank people again for responding and providing their input to the situation I have. Also, thanks Scott Tucker! That response must have took some time to type and everything!

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
I've seen Roy Howell (who is the chief chemist at Redline and majority stock holder) lecture several times. He stated that the base stock is the same as street oil as Dave mentioned in his email. The difference is mainly in the additive package.


I spoke (on the phone) with Dave last Friday, and he also confirmed this live, and in person.

He also stated that the moly levels are very similar in the street and race oils, just the ZDDP and phos. levels were much higher in the race juice.

 

[Scott_Tucker]

I always liked attending Roy Howell's lectures. Very knowledgeable guy with a very impressive resume. Use used to lecture once a year in the high performance engine prep class taught every spring at my local community college. He was only there to teach us the science behind how oil works and is formulated, not to promote his product. Although he was proud to point out the advantages of Redline, he spoke very highly about the products of other companies. He said, "I don't care what brand synthetic oil you use in your street vehicle, just make sure to use synthetic. Mobil 1 is usually on sale and its good stuff.".