THE ULTIMATE 0W-40 OIL? Mobil 1 ==VS== Red Line!

[Ibrahim]

Mobil 1 0W-40 Approved Specifications:

- Mercedes MB 229.5
- Porsche A40 Approval List 2002
- GM-LL-A-025 (gasoline)
- GM-LL-B-025 (diesel)
- BMW Longlife 01
- VW 502.00/505.00/503.01
- ACEA A3, B3/B4
- API SM/CF
- NISSAN GT-R


Technical Data
0W-40................ Mobil 1
cSt @ 40ºC........... 78.3
cSt @ 100ºC.......... 14
Pour Point, ºC....... -54
Flash Point, ºC...... 230
TBN.................. 11.3
MRV @ -40ºC.......... 26242
VI................... 187
HTHS................. 3.7

0W-40................ Red Line
cSt @ 40ºC........... 81
cSt @ 100ºC.......... 15.1
Pour Point, ºC....... -60
Flash Point, ºC...... 218
TBN.................. ??
MRV @ -40ºC.......... ??
VI................... 197
HTHS................. 4.0


So friends, which is a better oil? which one would be able to provide more protection, allow better performance under toughest of situations for the longest periods of times?

 

[Quattro Pete]

My guess is it's too close to call.

 

[d00df00d]

Are you looking for facts or speculation? There's plenty of one and almost none of the other...

 

[CATERHAM]

I like both oils.
Yes, RL appears "better" which is the answer you're looking for but it's not available OTC like M1 which I can on occation get on sale for almost half the price of RL.
Additionally RL doesn't meet the mfr rec's that M1 does for those to which that matters.

 

[KoolBreeze]

"better"?

I gather Redline has more group V and "perhaps maybe" is "better" for use in a floating metal bush turbo charged engine?

I wouldn't mind reading more about this... from those better in the know. BUT other than that, if most other specs being met such as ACEA A3-08 etc I expect all other aspects will have to be determined through proper used oil lab analysis. with most everything else being more conjecture up until that point.

personally I'm thinking of purchasing a few quarts of redline to run a 50/50 mix just for the kix... the additional esters can't be much a bad thing in teh turbo and might help keep it clean in the process.

 

[zrxkawboy]

I think that you would have to run each for several OCIs in a given engine, and look at UOAs, in order to answer your question.

 

[buster]

Impossible to determine. Mobil 1 also has to conform to industry specifications. Redline doesn't, hence the higher HT/HS.

Stillen's GTR seems to like Redline over the M1 0w40.

http://www.redlineoil.com/news_article.aspx?id=9

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Whichever one you like best in your application is better. Cant tell everything from the spec sheet - though its a start.

 

[d00df00d]

Has anyone noticed the difference in flash points? Mobil 1's is higher. I'd think that would be important for a high performance engine.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: buster
Stillen's GTR seems to like Redline over the M1 0w40.

http://www.redlineoil.com/news_article.aspx?id=9

Given that they make money on the idea that stock isn't good enough, I'm not surprised.

Have they done any testing to back up that idea?


OT, but here's one thing that caught my eye:
Quote:
"We're very proud of our latest gear oils and 0-weight motor oils," Evans continues.

0-weight? lolwut?? C'mon Cameron, you know better than that...

 

[Trajan]

I'll stick with the M1.

 

[UG_Passat]

For what appplication?

For VAG FSI engine? Don't bother with M1. Not enough history with RL

 

[zoomzoom]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Has anyone noticed the difference in flash points? Mobil 1's is higher. I'd think that would be important for a high performance engine.


I noticed that as well, why is this the case if redline is ester based?

 

[d00df00d]

I don't know, but I suspect it's related to the higher viscosity index. I do know higher VI usually comes with higher volatility. Can't say for sure, though.

Come to think of it, I don't know why this didn't occur to me before, but maybe they're using a slightly different method to determine flash point, so it might be nothing anyway...

 

[UG_Passat]

Are Mobil & Redline testing flashpoints the same way? You have open cup & closed cup. They yield different results, so it can be an apples to oranges comparison.

I would suggest getting samples and sending them in for VOA, so you can compare the same data. Plus you get more details in some of the additives, to help you in your decision

 

[BobFout]

Recent M1 0w40 VOA for reference:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1722539#Post1722539

 

[CATERHAM]

As far as high temp performance is concerned I would but more weight on RL's significantly higher 100C vis and HTHS vis vs M1's higher flash point assuming the latter is valid.

 

[JAG]

The flash point test has a lot of variability. I don't read anything into the flashpoint difference between those two oils. I don't know the answer to the OP's question. I could guess but what good is that? Only testing can tell with decent certainty.

 

[zoomzoom]

Originally Posted By: JAG
The flash point test has a lot of variability. I don't read anything into the flashpoint difference between those two oils. I don't know the answer to the OP's question. I could guess but what good is that? Only testing can tell with decent certainty.


yes but when you compare flash points/NOAK of redline's 0w-xx to their 5w-xx oils there is quite a bit of difference and I would love to know why.

 

[priler]

i would agree that it's next to impossible to know which is better in a given application without very extensive and proper testing.

however,as a general rule,i'd say that for a dedicated track car,the redline would be better in the long run and for a street application,the mobil 1 would be much better.

i am less inclined in RLs' "sledge-hammer" approach with their additive package the more time passes for me.sometimes,a hunting knife is actually more effective.

on the mobil 1 0w-40,imo,it HAS to be made of either a high quality grp 3 or PAO,in combination with alkylated naphthalenes(ester)and more than likely,another type of ester also.

i say this because of exonmobils' extensive experience and large production of AN and because of what the 0w-40 is obligated to do.it has to be in there.AN is good "stuff",..it's very stable.

imo,the RL 0w-40 is a different combination of the traditional cuts and % that RL uses in other weights.it may even use an extra ester not normaly used in the others,..maybe diester,is also being used.knowing RLs' desire to create a product as stable as possible,maybe PAO,diester and polyolester.

has anyone called them to ask? i'm sure they won't give %,but maybe they'll say what type.