Rev-X Oil Additive

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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
the way Molakule is throwing out half-spoken accusations, without giving more info about it.


I am just giggling about the claims made as they are essentially the same claims made by Z-MAX and others.

As an educator as well, I try to get people to think critically about claims based on physics and chemistry. If I irritate you into thinking critcially, then I have accomplised my mission.

Most people would say I am "Overspoken" at times, certainly not "half-spoken."
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What are these new physio-chemical laws these people discovered that those of us in the industry have not found?

Just some points to ponder.
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Please go ahead and use these products if you like. No one is keeping you from purchasing these products.


Thank you Mola for hitting the nail in the head. Truth is, I don't stop someone from using these XYZ-additives but to merely pointed out that just because they (snake oils) and the marketers are littering the media+ internet with false/hyped, unsubstantiated claims and such and someone on this board falls for it makes me wonder why our academic systems are failing?!

Are we seriously lack common sense?

Oh well, I'm not foolish enough to let my hard-earned mullah part ways with my family so no snake oils for me...

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Originally Posted By: FiremarshalRob
Then how/why/what is in the additive that makes it work? Especially for cold morning starts in my cold morning hating diesel?


I'm allergic to all things diesel so why ask me?
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
The following presentation provides some interesting ways that specific esters can be used to improve lubrication in various lubrication regimes. The polymeric esters with high viscosity and medium polarity can improve lubrication in the mixed lubrication regime.

http://www.crodalubricants.com/download.aspx?s=133&m=doc&id=258

Since Rev-X's website mentions polar group of the molecules, they could be using polymeric esters. It could be many other things though. Here is the MSDS: http://www.revxoil.com/rev-x-Fleet-msd.asp


Hi, Jag.

I think you are correct about Rev-X using some kind of polymeric esters.
 
The link you provided, Jag, is very interesting.

Especially picture 20, about camshaft lobe wear, in a Nissan KA-24E engine.

They have used a 5W formulated oil(Group 3).

Notice the difference, from the standard ZDDP rate!
 
Originally Posted By: jonny-b
The link you provided, Jag, is very interesting.

Especially picture 20, about camshaft lobe wear, in a Nissan KA-24E engine.

They have used a 5W formulated oil(Group 3).

Notice the difference, from the standard ZDDP rate!

Yeah it's amazing that only 1/2% ZDDP and 1/2% polymeric ester produced such better wear results than same oil except for having standard ZDDP amount and no polymeric ester. I think people have a tendency (somewhat understandably) to think that a dosage as low as 1/2% cannot possibly do much, but it can.
 
I can also understand the skeptics, but actually, a few good additives still exist.

No matter what Quest and Molakule wants you to believe.

Sitting indoor, thinking, isn't the same as testing outside a laboratory.

It's called the real world, for most people.
 
While I agree that real world testing is very valuable, sometimes more than what a lab says, there is also science and physics. Certain claims companies make are impossible, and I think that is the case those gentlemen were trying to make here.


This statement alone is why I would stand clear of the product.
Quote: This creates a polarized attraction of additive that flows within the treated components lubricating fluid until the lubricated surface has a film layer 4 times thicker and more than 2500 times denser than any lubricant can provide (standard or synthetic) without increasing the viscosity of the lubricating fluid being used.

While part of it could be true 2500 times denser? Sorry I'm not buying it either. If you are looking into Esters etc, check out Lubegard Bio-Tech Engine Protectant. No wild claims, and a reputable company. JMO
 
Yep, the chemistry and physics of tribology is all about a bunch of eggheads sitting at their computers just rearranging molecules on a computer.
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Many years ago, when people were lamenting the reduction of ZDDP and saying that engines would be ruined,
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becuase of this reduction, I stated in many threads that new ashless, purely organic, AW and specialized FM additives would fill the void as ZDDP reduction occurred.

So for all of you students who are still filling the sponges in your brains, here is some study material.


http://www.eion-additives.com/TLT_2009.pdf

http://www.eion-additives.com/LubSci_2009.pdf

http://www.eion-additives.com/FMETrans_2008.pdf

These polymeric's have been increasingly used over the years in PCMO's and HDEO's as ZDDP reduction progressed.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
http://www.eion-additives.com/TLT_2009.pdf


Layman's summary:

"However, the fact remains that the greater the degree of hydrotreatment, the lower the solubility (see Scheme 1)."

Highly treated Group IIIs look, smell, and act like PAO.

"Low solubility not only makes it difficult to dissolve
some essential additives, it also compromises essential quality
parameters such as dispersancy and seal compatibility."

We have Group IIIs which present the same problems we experienced when PAOs became common.

"Blend with ionized vegetable oils. These products have unique properties, inheriting their positive features such as high lubricity and antiwear effi ciency from vegetable oil while at the same time adding oxidation stability and antisludge capability."

Buy our product.

"In combination with synthetic and severely hydroprocessed VHVI and XHVI mineral base oils, as well as with emerging Group III+, or “Super-Group III” basestocks produced by the Fischer-Tropsch process, lubricity and solubility improvers serve a solid foundation for formulating top quality lubricants."

Buy our product.

It is both feasible and economical to formulate Group III and PAO formulae using esters, alkylated naphthalenes, and other lubricity and solvency enhancers - or one can achieve more or less the same result using a variety of ashless, purely organic, AW and specialized FM additives.

Since in either case the engine will outlast the rest of the car, a decision based on price makes as much sense as anything.

Go with the low cost solution.
 
What I am trying to say, is that the best way to get trustful results, is to use BOTH lab testing and real world testing.
I guess you can remember what happened with the Mercedes A class in 1998, when they didn't follow that simple rule.

I don't have access to a lab, so I have just tried this Rev-X additive in a daily driver car.

I tried it in the transmission, and it worked.
FiremashalRob, tried it in the engine, and it worked.

What annoy me, is the tendency to ridicule results, seen from several members, just because some highly educated tribologist haven't looked into this particular product.

It has been mentioned here before, that every member here should contribute with their acquired results, when testing a new to them, additive.

Of course, in most cases, it can be a logical explanation to power increase and increase in MPG, but we will see a pattern, if suddenly several members report about a certain product, that gives positive results.

This goes of course, only for those who has really tried the product that is mentioned.

Not those persons who like to come and tell you what is possible, and what is not, based on that report and this research alone.

If people are afraid to report any unusual results, what use is this board?

It should be room for all kind of people here.
 
I don't think anyone is disputing what you are saying. My point was if a respected Tribologist is telling me that something a company is claiming is impossible or off the wall I pass and move to something else. Now if several respected Bitog members field test the product and see some positive results I might reconsider. This is how I operate, each of us is different. I have to get past the [censored] factor to even consider something.

An off the wall example. Lets say a new drink hits the market and the company claims adults who drink it will grow on average of 2 inches taller. Science says no way, I agree and don't try the product. Fellow friends try it and claim they no longer suffer from joint pain. If I suffered from joint pain I might give it a try.
 
The original question was:

Quote:
So I looked at the products page and was reading the description of how it works. I can see why it would be pretty convincing to the average person. I was just wondering if you would agree that they make a good argument for the product that the average person would believe.


There was no mention of "have you used it" etc. The question was, was it convining to the average user.

Undeniably, the average person would be convinced.

The marketing hype does make it convincing as should all marketing hype.

But what about the technical aspects?

Do people here not have a right to discuss the technical aspects of the claims, as well as seat-of-the-pants opinions?

But we here at BITOG are NOT, and let me say that again, are NOT average people.
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The original intent of BITOG was to educate and to cross pollinate.
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Quote:
What annoy me, is the tendency to ridicule results, seen from several members, just because some highly educated tribologist haven't looked into this particular product.


Irritating yes, annoying, no???
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No way, dude!
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Ok, I missed it, where did we ridicule results??????

The data contained in the company's literature as to its technical validity of the claims is what is being called into question.

And what makes you think we haven't used it or a similar product in formulations?
 
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According to the MSDS:
Quote:
Combustion may form oxides of: Nitrogen, Calcium, Boron.

Typical PCMO stuff there.

It is also heavier than water which is VERY unusual unless it contains chlorinated EP agents.
I believe calcium adds are also heavier than water so maybe that's it??
 
OK.

Then, to sum it up:

I have tried this Rev-X in a transmission, and it seem to work.
FiremarshalRob has tried it in and engine, and it seem to work.

I will try it in an engine, and would be very glad to hear from others that have actually tried this exact product, not a "similar" product, what their experience is about it.

Good or bad doesn't matter.
 
Molakule, I did not say that you have done any ridiculing of results/findings, I was simply being proactive, so it should not get to that point :)
 
Quote:
It has been mentioned here before, that every member here should contribute with their acquired results, when testing a new to them, additive.

Of course, in most cases, it can be a logical explanation to power increase and increase in MPG, but we will see a pattern, if suddenly several members report about a certain product, that gives positive results.

This goes of course, only for those who has really tried the product that is mentioned.

Not those persons who like to come and tell you what is possible, and what is not, based on that report and this research alone.

If people are afraid to report any unusual results, what use is this board?

It should be room for all kind of people here.


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Seriously now, it will be interesting to see if these kinds of products enahnce any aspect of performance or driveability.

I have brewed up some pretty exotic and expensive stuff in the past, but this additive is approx. $8 per ounch, err, per ounce.

What kind of performance increase or mileage increase would you have to see to recoup the costs?
 
This must be a very new, very small company. The company address is in a residential neiborhood. Great things can start small, but I expected some sort of business front. I couldn't get googlemap street view to work for this address, but I was able to find a house for sale just a few doors down the street. The link is below.


Address from the MSDS sheet:

LUBRICATION SPECIALTIES INC.
4109 Hillsdale Ave
Grand Rapids, MI 49525 USA


Link to house for sale just a few doors down the street:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/4124-Hillsdale-Ave-NE-Grand-Rapids-MI-49525/23762934_zpid/
 
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