Throttle-by-wire?

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How many of you have a bike that has throttle-by-wire. If so, do you think that they will have problems like the Toyotas?

You know, unintended acceleration?

I'm not worried about it (cause I've had a throttle stick before) but just wanted to see what anyone else thought.
 
My worry is if I had some limited edition of hundreds there wouldn't be so many "test pilots" like if I had a camry with 100s of thousands out there. So the odds are better I'd have the first issue.

And if some poor sap's throttle got stuck and he couldn't handle it, the bike would be in a million pieces and the cops would think he was showing off, case closed.

The 2nd throttle cable, for returning the twist grip to idle with redundant springs, at least shows bike makers are serious about this sort of safety. And there's the big red kill switch.
 
The slide carbs on my 2-stroke suzuki road bike used to stick open. I have seen many stuck throttle issue with mechanical actuated carbs. As a rider you have to know how to deal with it - on a powerfull bile you have to react quickly. Luckily the clutch pull is right at hand.
 
I have a cable on my Harley but have read posts about guys with the new Harleys having TBW issues. Mostly idle no unintended acceleration. But remember, your bike has a kill switch right next to the throttle. So the danger factor is not the same magnitude as a car. Then factor in that the vast majority of motorcycle riders possess a higher skill level for operating a motor vehicle than the average dope behind the wheel and the story takes on a different ending.

If the CHP driver who was killed in the Lexus had been a motor officer I believe the result would have been different. Riding a motorcycle really trains the driver on how all of the different powertrain components interact because you actually control all of them separately with different parts of your body. So in essence you are physically connected to the powertrain on a motorcycle in a very different way than a car or truck.

Harley has had some unintended throttle surging in their 2006,07 EFI bikes. It was caused by the ECM mapping requied by the EPA for emmissions. Very easy to tune out with a race tuner.
 
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I don't, but both my parents and most of my friends who have cars do. I'm not worried at all.
 
I asked this same question about the reliability of the "throttle-by-wire" and did some research. It appears that many auto manufacturers have been using for several years now.
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I was a bit skeptical about its' use on motorcycles - and wondering about the possible benefits and also wondering about replacement costs, should it ever need replacement.
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Was also very surprised to learn about the Toyota recall. Ford, GM, Chrysler - maybe. But Toyota? Say it isn't true !
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My C14 doesn't use TBW but the computer does control the secondary throttle butterflies and so those are used by the computer for traction-control, and throttle response.

Does HD use traction-control? Oops, guess they don't need to.
 
I'll stay with throttle by cable thanks.

There are untold numbers of applications for technology. I have nothing against it. I embrace it. However, technology for the sake of technology is completely unnecessary. Why use computers, electronic signalling devices and servo motors to do the job of one or two cables? Where's the sense in it?

The more complicated things become, consumers end up being alienated from the machine. We become dependent on dealerships with specialized equipment to diagnose problems and effect repairs. Consumers are being forced to be dependent on the dealerships. I know I will not be buying any new state of the art motorcycles, regardless of brand. The bikes I have are at a level of technology that I understand and can easily work on.

When modern vehicles slip into the techno dark age, leaving us blind and helpless to work on them, we will be left with no choice but to have a sorcerer/dealer exact their extravagant hourly toll to remedy even the slightest technical problem. The only alternative is to lay out some serious cash for diagnostic equipment of our own and haul that around with us. Then be prepared to wait for a replacement part because it will be unlikely that we can repair the part(s) that have failed.

The only consolation that we have is that failure rates are relatively low. But then so is that of a properly maintained cable.

Short of a catastrophic failure, the bikes I own now can be repaired with a few simple tools. Simplicity does have it's rewards.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
There are untold numbers of applications for technology. I have nothing against it. I embrace it. However, technology for the sake of technology is completely unnecessary. Why use computers, electronic signalling devices and servo motors to do the job of one or two cables? Where's the sense in it?


1. Less weight, complication, and cost (you already have a TPS anyway)
2. Smaller/fewer holes in firewalls or bulkheads
3. No need for a separate motor- or vacuum-driven system for cruise control
4. Greatly simplifies traction and stability control
5. Enables systems like VALVETRONIC and VVEL (engine response governed by valvetrain parameters rather than throttle position)
6. Allows the ECU to intelligently select throttle position along with valvetrain parameters and gear selection to optimize fuel economy and power
7. Less chance for mechanical binding
8. Allows throttle cut-off when brakes are applied (Toyota notwithstanding)
9. Allows the ECU to adapt to a driver's style


Originally Posted By: boraticus
The more complicated things become, consumers end up being alienated from the machine.

I agree fully with this sentiment in general. I would only say that I don't think it holds in this particular case. Throttle-by-wire is no more complicated than a cable throttle, and has a whole host of potential benefits. It may require different knowledge to diagnose and fix, but not really more per se. If you don't feel comfortable with it, I wouldn't blame you in the slightest. Just don't forget that the next generation of people starting from zero knowledge aren't going to have too hard a time with this particular system.

Given that the failure rates are extremely low, as you say, people working on TBW bikes aren't going to have any more need for code readers and programmers than you have for specialty tools to fix "catastrophic" failures.
 
I can pull apart, clean and re-assemble a carburetor on the side of the road with a screw/nut driver, a piece of wire and some gasoline. I cannot diagnose/repair a fuel injection system or other electronic device. If I were going someplace where modern conveniences are far and few between, I'll take mechanical actuation over electronic any day. If I can see the problem, I can usually fix it. Unfortunately, I cannot see electricity nor where it cycles through in those miniscule micro-processors.

Manufacturers and dealers love to isolate consumers from doing their own repairs. Makes money for them. The less I can do, the more I have to pay. Simple, self serving economics on behalf of the manufacturing industries and their dealerships.
 
In the last 5 years I've driven 500k miles without ever having to mess with: timing, points, jets, floats, tv cables, idles, accel pumps or chokes. I've never wondered if a car was going to start at midnight at -20F. I've done wires&plugs 3 times. I've never lost a PCM or major sensor. With a manual and a pocket scanner I can decide within 60 seconds whether the CEL is urgent or can be safely ignored until I get home. Give me EFI any day.
 
Originally Posted By: calvin1
In the last 5 years I've driven 500k miles without ever having to mess with: timing, points, jets, floats, tv cables, idles, accel pumps or chokes. I've never wondered if a car was going to start at midnight at -20F. I've done wires&plugs 3 times. I've never lost a PCM or major sensor. With a manual and a pocket scanner I can decide within 60 seconds whether the CEL is urgent or can be safely ignored until I get home. Give me EFI any day.


Same here, I've had it with carbs forever. Never again for me. Same thing was said when electronic ignition replaced the old bogus points system. I still know a guy that doesn't trust factory electronic ignition on his Harley and retrofitted points so he can in fact "fix it on the side of the road". Well he gets his wish, fixes it on the road. I'd rather be riding than fixing.
 
There is a problem if you venture far afield. You will find that you just can't get some high-tech stuff fixed very easily in places like Central or South America, or in the wilds of northern Canada. Having a system you can fix by the side of the road, or at least jury rig, can save your butt. For that matter, unless you have a popular bike, like an HD or a Honda, you might be in trouble even in the U.S. How many Moto Guzzi or Aprilia dealers do you see?
 
Originally Posted By: AuthorEditor
There is a problem if you venture far afield. You will find that you just can't get some high-tech stuff fixed very easily in places like Central or South America, or in the wilds of northern Canada. Having a system you can fix by the side of the road, or at least jury rig, can save your butt. For that matter, unless you have a popular bike, like an HD or a Honda, you might be in trouble even in the U.S. How many Moto Guzzi or Aprilia dealers do you see?


Well...Central or South America and up in the Canadian wild....Ok...I'll just be stuck riding in the lower 48 and keep my EFI....
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Originally Posted By: boraticus

When modern vehicles slip into the techno dark age, leaving us blind and helpless to work on them, we will be left with no choice but to have a sorcerer/dealer exact their extravagant hourly toll to remedy even the slightest technical problem.


Techno dark age.....sorcerer/dealer.....
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Originally Posted By: boraticus
I can pull apart, clean and re-assemble a carburetor on the side of the road with a screw/nut driver, a piece of wire and some gasoline. I cannot diagnose/repair a fuel injection system or other electronic device. If I were going someplace where modern conveniences are far and few between


I agree that mechanical mixture is much easier to maintain, BUT the EPA says that motorcycles must make LESS emissions and carbs are not as precise at metering fuel/air ratios as FI. Which I know you already know. So, the manufacturers are forced by the EPA to use more computer technology to meet that mandate.

It looks like you will be riding older motorcycles for the foreseeable future (your 2-strokes) if you want to continue working on carbs. Better start hording those carburetted bikes.

Even dirtbikes with no batteries are using FI now, so the days of carbs are over.

I feel for you...
 
Do you not get less fuel dilution with the run-of-the-mill fuel injection system? Better fuel economy? A bit more horsepower?

I understand the part about not being able to work on some of the high-tech stuff.... but I've been working on them all of my life and (in my case) the newer ones don't need nearly as much "work" as the older designs.

I add electronic ignition to all of the older bikes. One of my customers will not give up his contact points/condenser for the reason that he says he can fix it on the side of the road if he has to. And let me tell you - he has to.

I must be getting old. This newer stuff is great for me. Click the key and press the button. Then go, go, go.

Some of my friends say "they don't make 'em like they used to" and I (for one) am very happy about that.
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Fuel injection meters the fuel more precisely when responding to varying engine demands. With a carburetor, when a full throttle application is applied, excess fuel will be provided and likely not thoroughly burned. With EFI, the fuel is measured much more accurately to meet the load/demand that the engine requires. It pretty much provides better fuel economy and likely better power delivery for fuel burnt. Not sure if I'd go as far to say that more power will result from fuel injection. Just a better match for fuel delivered to meet power required.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Fuel injection meters the fuel more precisely when responding to varying engine demands. With a carburetor, when a full throttle application is applied, excess fuel will be provided and likely not thoroughly burned. With EFI, the fuel is measured much more accurately to meet the load/demand that the engine requires. It pretty much provides better fuel economy and likely better power delivery for fuel burnt. Not sure if I'd go as far to say that more power will result from fuel injection. Just a better match for fuel delivered to meet power required.


You have obviously never tuned and re-mapped a fuel injected bike. You can actually increase the volumetric efficiency and air/fuel ratio of each cylinder. So more air & fuel in and out equals more power. With a carb you can re-jet but that is a close as you can get.
 
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Fuel injection meters the fuel more precisely when responding to varying engine demands. With a carburetor, when a full throttle application is applied, excess fuel will be provided and likely not thoroughly burned. With EFI, the fuel is measured much more accurately to meet the load/demand that the engine requires. It pretty much provides better fuel economy and likely better power delivery for fuel burnt. Not sure if I'd go as far to say that more power will result from fuel injection. Just a better match for fuel delivered to meet power required.


You have obviously never tuned and re-mapped a fuel injected bike. You can actually increase the volumetric efficiency and air/fuel ratio of each cylinder. So more air & fuel in and out equals more power. With a carb you can re-jet but that is a close as you can get.


On the Yamaha FJRs all you have to go is jump a wire in the ECU and the digital dash allows you to do just that -- change the air/fuel mixture for each cylinder. No PIII necessary.

Race bikes can actually be optimized on the track by laptops from the pits during the race.

BTW, I have to give HD some kudos for their switch to FI as this enhances their rideablity and performance.

BUT....just wait until the other shoe drops --- EPA regulations are going to require cats in another few years. No more loud exhausts
 
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