MSDS for Motul 8100 X-Max

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I am currently using 8100 E-Tech in my 07 GTI. Since the 8100 E-Tech was discontinued, I am pretty much forced to switch things up. I am torn between the Total Quartz INEO MC-3 and the Motul 8100 X-Max. Both are 5w-30 and on the 502/505 approval list. I read the MSDS sheet from Total's world site, but I can not find an MSDS sheet for the 8100 X-Max. I also beleive that the 8100 is the only Motul oil on the 502/505 list that is ester based.

Does someone have the Motul 8100 X-Max MSDS that I can take a glance at?
 
You can find Motul MSDS on Motul-canada.com (not on motul.ca and motul.fr)
 
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I can't find the NOACK for 8100 X-cess 5W-40? I'm trying to compare it with Redline 5W-40, which has a NOACK of 6.
 
Originally Posted By: Finklejag
I can't find the NOACK for 8100 X-cess 5W-40? I'm trying to compare it with Redline 5W-40, which has a NOACK of 6.

xcess pdf

oops the above doesn't have the noack. Not sure where to get that
 
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You got me a little scared now saaber1 with all this valve deposit talk. From what you said and what I read yesterday. A group V oil might help the deposits. I can get Redline locally. But I have to worry about the warranty. Thats why I'm looking into the Motul line. They have three oils I could use.

The one that catches my eye is the 8100 X-clean C3. It looks like it's the latest from Motul. It meets the latest BMW LL-04 spec, Mercedes 229.51, and said it is suited for direct injection engines.

8100 X-clean C3
 
Originally Posted By: Finklejag
You got me a little scared now saaber1 with all this valve deposit talk. ... the Motul line....

re: Motul I would look to Motul X-lite 0w30 (502 approved and ester based) or 300V (not approved as I recall). These are ester based and I believe an ester based oil such as the motul x-lite or biosyn, etc. will hold up better to the fuel dilution and the abuse this engine dishes out. They are typically low in volatility as well.

re: valve deposits, your car is no worse off than the Porsche DI, BMW DI, Mazda DI, and probably every other DI engine out there except Lexus and toyota. No fuel to wash the valves + recirculating crankcases gases = intake valve deposits.

All these engines are in the same boat, the only difference is the vw/audi engines have been out longer and there are folks like Rl_RS4 that have done tons of work to identify the problem. So we know about the issue in the vw/audi probably more than any other DI engine.

If you stop the problem by eliminating pcv gas return to the intake tract, the problem is solved. Or you can adopt a program to treat the systems which is more work. I outlined the options below. I'm in your area so you are welcome to check out my 08 GTI which has the pcv system bypassed to the exhaust. I prefer this method because it permanently solves the problem. A vent to atmosphere catch can is another approach that solves the problem but has no vacuum to evacuate crankcase gasses.

Here is a video of the BG induction service that Crew219 found on VW vortex http://www.vimeo.com/3989681

Also, here are the techniques I know of to deal with valve deposits (from the audi/Mikeinaustin thread):

Some very easy/low cost preventative options that can help but will not solve the DI valve deposit problems:

1) Use a low volatility and good cleaning oil (cost: additional $5-$10 per oil change)
2) Seafoam, lubro moly valve cleaner, water, etc. through the intake at every oil change (cost: $3.50-$10)
3) Regular italian tuneups (cost: gas)
4) Catch can (all kinds of flavors out there) (cost: $30-$300)
5) Fuel injector cleaner in the gas to deal with fuel injector deposits (will not help with intake valve or intake deposits) (cost:$5-$10)

More difficult/expensive "helping but not solving options"

6) BG induction service or similar (cost: $135-$250?)
7) water/meth injection (cost: ???)
8) remove intake and clean valves every 50k or so (cost: ????)

Some one-time-fix-the-problem options:

1) bypass pcv and route to exhaust (search for saaber2 thread "bypassing pcv") (cost $125-$175)
2) Run a catch can that vents to atmosphere ((may increase build up acids in oil due to lack of vacuum in evacuating crankcase gasses (but that is unknown)?)? may have smell or freezing issues?) (cost: $300?)
3) Run a "down tube" or "road tube" that vents to atmosphere ((may increase build up acids in oil due to lack of vacuum in evacuating crankcase gasses (but that is unknown)?) (cost: $25 -$50)
 
Thanks for all of the good info Saaber! I ran the x-max for a 5k interval, but I did not get an analysis for it, so I am not sure how it held up.

I wanted to see what GC could bring to the table for the FSI engine. So I made the switch around 3k ago. Seems to be ok, I believe it is being consumed faster than the Motul, but other than that it looks good so far. I will be analyzing the GC to see how it performed in my particular engine.

I am also keen to give the X-lite a go. It is a little salty compared to others, but I believe you should use a high quality oil in every engine.

Any other suggestions/recommendations?
 
Fyi rhouse181 has some runs of 8100xcess and motul specific and they look nearly identical. They are good as far as 502 oils go. They may be the best yet of the 502 oils (if we discount the >95% highway use runs of other cars). GC is also good for a 502 oil.

These 502 oils are good oils and in another engine they often do very well. I would use something better than a 502 oil in my 2.0FSI. The 502 oils are made to a standard. That standard is not cutting it in 2.0 FSIs if you look at the data. They have heavy shearing, low flashpoint, higher iron numbers. Most all the 502 oils look about the same.

No uoas for the x-lite 0w30 yet. Even though it is 502, it should fare better than most 502 oils IMO if Motul's "ester-based" claims are true.

As far as suggestions, I suggest: "use something more shear stable, with lower volatiility, and with higher anti-wear and detergency additives than VW 502 oils"

Not really enough data to make specific suggestions but here are some of my personal preferences to think about. My first choice would be an ester-based oil with a strong additive pack. Possibilities include redline, renewable lubricants biosyn, or Motul 300V. Or you could use a good diesel/mixed fleet oil such as Amsoil DEO, M1 TDT 5w40, or Rotella synthetic 5W40. All of those should do better than the 502 oils (perhaps with the x-lite excepted but that is unknown until we get a UOA or two). Those are my preferences based on what I know at this time but make your own choice based on the info. you have seen. As more data comes in we can make more educated choices.
 
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I have been keeping my eye on the Rotella T6 actually. I understand it to be a PAO based oil, correct? I was not sure about running it in the FSI engine. But, after lurking for months and reading about other oils being destroyed by this engine, I am willing to try a non 502 oil with the hope that it will be a bit more robust and tame the FSI engine. I also like the fact that the T6 is probably going to be easier to purchase locally.
 
I emailed Motul-Canada. They told me the 8100 X-lite 0W-30 has a Noack of 11.0. That seems to be pretty high for their highest ester based 8100 series oil?
 
Originally Posted By: Finklejag
I emailed Motul-Canada. They told me the 8100 X-lite 0W-30 has a Noack of 11.0. That seems to be pretty high for their highest ester based 8100 series oil?


That does seem high. I know esters can vary greatly in volatility by type so whatever kind they are using must be more volatile than say redline's whose Noack is 6.

Or the other thing is that maybe esters are only a small %. On the Motul 300V thread someone said Motul had surprisingly low % ester. I wish manufacturers would just tell us the % basestocks! dream on I guess...

BTW I got my redline 5w40 results back today on a 7600 mile run which is long for the 2.0FSI. I was surprised that it sheared from 15.1 to 13.4 in the first 2700 miles and then only to 13.2 in the next 3000 miles. But the last 1000 miles or so were highway. Will post when I get a chance to take out personal info. I think the redline 5w40 is still the only 40 weight to stay a 40 weight (maybe the Biosyn 5w40 also, I need to check) on any UOA we have for the 2.0 FSI. I am a little surprised it stayed a 40 weight over 7600 miles.
 
I just received a email from Pentosin. Their Pentospeed 0W-30 has a Noack of 9. This oil has a pour point of -76f also.
 
How to read Zinc or ZDP contain in oil?

I'm looking for oil tbat has 1,200 PPM ZDP or above, for my old car that still using tapet Rocker Arm.

Now I wonder how to read since one oil such Castrol Edge 5W-40 A3/B4 C3 has Zinc only 0.0876 % WT.

But in the other hand, similiar product from Motul 8100 X-Cess has dithiophosphat ealkyle de zinc as much as < 2 %.

Is it mean Castrol only 876 PPM ZDP,
anda Motul has about as much as < 20,000 PPM ZDP in their products?

Please some one give me an information about this.


Thx.
 
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I Know only a few API SL oils with high ZDDP (Zn=1200..1300ppm, P=1100..1200):
Motul X-lite 0W-30
Valvoline Synpower MXL 0W-30
Fuchs Titan Supersync 0W-30


But not Castrol, Aral, Elf, Total, Mobil,...
 
Motul 8100 X-Cess is API SL too.

Would it contain a high Zinc too ?

I really need a 5W-40 one, since I live in hot climate tropic in Jakarta, Indonesia that temperature can achieve 40 degree celsius or even more in a shiny day.
 
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