ATF in HD Primary Chain case

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I'll be changing oils and fluids soon apon my 5K OCI, and been curious if a synthetic ATF fluid sa. Mobil 1 ATF would be a better choice than the Rotella 5W-40 I use for my Kawasaki. could there be any friction modifiers in syn ATF fluid? Motor will probably use mobil 1 20W-50Vtwin, and mobil 1 75W-90 syn for trans. Presenty use all Amsoils.

Howie...
 
This has been talked about lots of times before. Some folks run it and swear by it. Me? I prefer to use the spec'd oil. I have used M1 gear lube in my big twins with fine results just as I have had fine results with the Harley trans oil. I would not use ATF, but that's just me.
 
For the primary, which is the least critcal applicaton of the three holes IMO, I think the only reason not to use HD formula + is price. Formula + is a perfectly good product for the primary. I have used several no/low-moly motor oils including Shell Rotella T 15W40 with great results in clutch operation. ATF in the primary is quite popular but I have never used it.

Here is a good read on the ATF subject. This was also covered on BITOG around September 22 if you want to go back there. The writer of the first post in the link has over 300K on primarys using ATF with no problems. He discusses his opinions on Merc/Dex, Type F, B&M trick shift, and others.

http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/engine-oils-lubrication/136694-some-observations-atf.html


For the tranny I would use a good gear lube and not motor oil. Just my opinion. Red Line shock proof is my preference for that hole but Mobil gear lube, Amsoil gear lube and others will be fine. HD Formula + in the tranny is the current OEM recommendation but I've never used it there. HD used to have a good semi-syn tranny lube but discontiued it when they did the syn 3 experiment (which didn't work out so well for the tranny). Thus the Formula +.
 
I have run Amsoil in the primary, motor and trans. it works fine in all 3, plus Amsoil says it can be used in all 3. Recently I was due for a primary change and didn't have amsoil , so I tried Valvoline mc oil. $3.99 a qt and it works as well as Amsoil did.I have heard of guys using auto trans fluid in their primary, but if it's not on the moco's list of fluids to use I won't use it. I'm not sayin I use Harley's oil, but a product that meets or exceeds their specs.I believe there has to be some wear issues down the road that will pop up and cause more grief then the savings that may be realized by using a untested lubricant. But hey, it's your bike and money.,,
 
I use redline MTL/Mt90 mix in my primary which is about a 40w. But I know at least 10 guys who use ATF. Most use Mobil1 ATf and have never had a problem in tens of thousands of miles.

HD Formula + is a 50w which is too thick for me. I will only use an oil in the primary that has no moly. Redline MTL is a 70w80 oil that pours like a 5w30. So it works well too.
 
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I use Mobil One ATF in my '03 Ultra's primary, and I will attest that it is the difference between night and day on how good it shifts and feels now. JMHO, of course. Having said that, most aftermarket clutches for HD require or recommend ATF in thier applications.
 
I've never used ATF and first thought is "makes sense, very
stable stuff"....second though is "not a good choice to
lubricate the primary chain, even in a wet bath" ....but
would argue with anyone that it has to work as well as
HD synthetic...lol. Considering the polarity of ester
and the robust add package, after 35 years of HDs I
use Redline. Nothing can stick to gears and find it's way
into a roller chain like ester....it's very simple
chemistry. It's also great because you can leave it
in there for two riding seasons with total peace-of-mind.
 
To the original poster:

Well the primary chaincase certainly is not a candidate for high-tech lubrication.

ATF is somewhere in the 20wt area and HD Formula+ is somewhere around 50wt, although Redline makes an ATF that's a 30wt.

But hey - many aftermarket clutch manufacturers recommend ATF.
You will get a harder "hook-up" with the ATF.

Seriously though - you could use just about anything.

ME? I've used a 15W-40 or 10W-40 for more than 20 years now. Mostly Rotella.

The transmission gets whatever conventional 75W90 that's on sale and gets changed once a year (always worried about moisture).

Here's hoping that the weather warms up and you get a chance to get out and ride.
 
I've run dino Type F ATF in my '97 Road King's primary for the last two years and I like it. My bike has 47K on it now and was started off with the Harley primary fluid, then switched to Amsoil 10w40 for several years and then back to the Harley primary fluid that I found in my stash for one year and now the Type F ATF.

The Amsoil felt better than the Harley primary fluid but the ATF seems to feel better than those. It hasn't leaked, it's cheap, and I change it at least every 5K miles, sometimes sooner. I was going to try the Rotella 15w40 but read enough info on the ATF to convince me to give it a try and so far it has worked well.

I'm also stocked up on the Bardahl primary chaincase fluid due to catching the sale at Dennis Kirk. I have several friends that I change fluids for .. but, I haven't tried it yet either because this ATF seems to work so well!
 
I use old Bluejug Walmart 20W50 in the Primary of the BSA. Seems to work just fine. Clutch doesn't slip.

ATF seems like water and I got some rather unusual wear. The original spec on the BSA (back in the dark ages) was for 20wt oil in the chaincase...so Walmart Bluejug 20W50.
 
I don't know that I have much input on the direct question, but more of a comment on the topic.

Seems many times people are trying to re-invent the (lubricant) wheel. OEMs do go to a lot of effort to establish reasonable lube specs to assure a long, healthy performance level for their products. Most of the time, they get it right; sometimes not. Now, it's important to understand the distinction between what engineers spec out, and what marketing folks push to the public. I think most of us are aware of HD's marketing abilities ...

Why do I mention this? Well, follow along.

HD faithfull often debate the merrits of using ATF products in their primary cases, rather than the recommended oils. I suppose that people are searching for the "ultimate" protection, and think that they know better than the engineers. There are some HD owners that use the ATF, and you rarely, if ever, hear of any ill-fated experiences with the "alternative" fluid. Some even state that it seems "better" in shift feel, or noise level, etc. At it's heart, it's a chain driven gear case.

The opposite is true of some GMC/Chevy heavy duty truck owners. Some think that they should run motor oil in their transfer case, rather than the spec'd ATF. Again, a chain driven piece of equipment. And you can hear the echos of the same claims; less noise, better shifting into 4x4, etc. I often challenge these people to provide proof and data as to their claims, but all I ever get is "feels better" and "sounds better". No UOAs, no teardown analysis, no particle counts, etc. Just rhetoric. If you're interested in my detailed research and opinion on this topic, you can read it over at dieselplace.com.

Ironic, is it not? People are always searching for the greener grass on the other side of the fence.

On this one topic, staying within the bounds of a chain driven power transer device, perhaps it just does not make a lot of difference what type fluid is used?

I am, however, a proponent of sticking with OEM spec'd fluids. Not OEM marketed products, per say, but simply items that meet OEM engineered specs. At least this way, you know what your getting into. It's not that alternatives cannot work; clearly then can. But there is no "proof" of developmental data for the "alternative" other than anecdotal evidence.

I have no great vice against people choosing the lubes that they feel most comfortable using. But I always like to see people have good information, to make educated decisions. The only way to do that is to research all the facts and data, while seperating out all the hype and mythology.
 
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dnewton3:

Excellent points.

You're making waaaaay too much sense. Keep that up and the snake oil companies will have to ramp up their advertising campaigns.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3


I have no great vice against people choosing the lubes that they feel most comfortable using. But I always like to see people have good information, to make educated decisions. The only way to do that is to research all the facts and data, while seperating out all the hype and mythology.


Yes, and that's why BITOG exists - for people to ask these types of questions and get that information.

Hopefully, we are all smart enough to separate fact from opinion.
 
I think it is a natural progression for DIYs. There are people that will search the earth for just good enough for the lowest possible price and those that will spend any amount for "the best". Then there are those that hit all points in between. In the search for suitable substitutes people venture into things not in line with OEM recs. Whether it is using floor wax on headlights or ATF in a primary drive. This entire forum is full of such ideas. Some well researched and actually proven by hundreds of K miles of use per unit, and some....well.... Maybe not the best idea. This is one idea that has many millions of trouble free miles on it over many years and has been investigated by people that have forgotten more about drive systems than most of us will ever know. I just happen to be happy with $2.50 Rotella instead which falls in line with OEM rec. ATF producers = snake oil companies????
 
Clutch drag in colder weather was a real problem with Formula+ in my primary. I switched to B&M Trick Shift and there is no going back. No clutch drag and it improved the shift feel, too.
 
I use Spectro products in the trans and primary.

M1 VT in the crank case.

Happy with the performance of all 3.
 
One thing to keep in mind, too: Most (maybe all) of the aftermarket clutch makers (like Barnett) recommend ATF in the primary for their Harley clutches. One (Barnett) specifically says DO NOT use Formula+.
 
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