My Bro-N-Law has asked me to replace his front pads and rotors on his 03 Ford Ranger. He has ordered these products from Rockauto: Wagner ThermoQuiet pads and Raybestos Professional Grade Rotors, What do you guys think about the products and Rockauto. He paid just under $110 for everything including shipping. I love helping my Bro-N-Law, He was disabled in Iraq and is just needing a little work done but I want to do it right.
ThermoQuiet Pads and Raybestos Rotors, RockAuto
- Thread starter oilcoholic
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should work great. pay close attention that he got the right rotors, there are a few different part numbers for 4wd or 2wd and if 2wd if coil or torsion bar and rotor diameter.
RockAuto is great, there service is awesome, and there prices can't be beat. I've used Raybestos rotors, and pads on many friends cars with no problems. I've also used Wagner Thermoquiet pads on several cars, including my own, and they are good pads.
You shouldn't have any trouble. I just did brakes on my uncles '98 Ranger. There are 2 different rotors for if it is just rear wheel abs, or 4 wheel. Also if it is a 2wd, make sure to repack your wheel bearings and change your grease seals. If money is not a problem, I'd also replace the wheel bearings while your already there. Remember to pack the bearings from the back side of the cage, so you can see that the rollers are covered in grease before installation. Finally remember to set the bearing preload when installing the new rotors. To do this, install the new rotor on the hub, and tighten the spindle nut with a ratchet, and socket. Now spin the rotor forward, and backward.
Next loosen the nut, but not too much. You don't want the rotor to slide down the spindle. Next tighten the spindle nut just with the weight of you channelocks, and install the nut cage, and the cotter pin.
You shouldn't have any trouble. I just did brakes on my uncles '98 Ranger. There are 2 different rotors for if it is just rear wheel abs, or 4 wheel. Also if it is a 2wd, make sure to repack your wheel bearings and change your grease seals. If money is not a problem, I'd also replace the wheel bearings while your already there. Remember to pack the bearings from the back side of the cage, so you can see that the rollers are covered in grease before installation. Finally remember to set the bearing preload when installing the new rotors. To do this, install the new rotor on the hub, and tighten the spindle nut with a ratchet, and socket. Now spin the rotor forward, and backward.
Next loosen the nut, but not too much. You don't want the rotor to slide down the spindle. Next tighten the spindle nut just with the weight of you channelocks, and install the nut cage, and the cotter pin.
Thermo Quiets are very good pads - Too bad the customer service behind them is HORRIBLE! I had fitment problems 2X with them on customers' cars. Their tech support took 3 days to respond and never did answer the question on whey their spec's pads dont fit Jeep Libertys. No excuse, IMHO
Clean everything, and lube every part that can be lubed.
The new rotors will have a protective grease on them - spray brake cleaner is good. Consider lightly spray painting the hub area and actually IN the vents to prevent future rust. Rustoleum works for me. [I do not race.] This may give more life way down the road.
And most importantly, DRIVE THE VEHICLE! Parts need to be seated in so there are no surprises! Don't worry about specific break in procedures - just normal driving for at least several miles.
The new rotors will have a protective grease on them - spray brake cleaner is good. Consider lightly spray painting the hub area and actually IN the vents to prevent future rust. Rustoleum works for me. [I do not race.] This may give more life way down the road.
And most importantly, DRIVE THE VEHICLE! Parts need to be seated in so there are no surprises! Don't worry about specific break in procedures - just normal driving for at least several miles.
Waiting on the Rockauto shipment. I went tonight and got the CRC Disc Brake Quiet, the Permatex Caliper Lube, and some high heat black spray paint. I've got 2 or 3 cans of brake cleaner. I'm looking forward to doing this job. I stopped by to pick up the maintenance manual from my bro-n-law and the job looks to be very similar to most other front disc brake jobs. We'll keep you updated.
Originally Posted By: oilcoholic
Waiting on the Rockauto shipment. I went tonight and got the CRC Disc Brake Quiet,
Do NOT use disc brake quiet on the Thermoquiets. They have a built-in insulator. These pads MUST be installed dry.
Waiting on the Rockauto shipment. I went tonight and got the CRC Disc Brake Quiet,
Do NOT use disc brake quiet on the Thermoquiets. They have a built-in insulator. These pads MUST be installed dry.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: oilcoholic
Waiting on the Rockauto shipment. I went tonight and got the CRC Disc Brake Quiet,
Do NOT use disc brake quiet on the Thermoquiets. They have a built-in insulator. These pads MUST be installed dry.
Elaborate! Are you sure? I use Permatex silicone brake lube on every brake job that I do regardless of the kind of brakes(semi-metalic, Ceramic etc.) And yes, I use it on the backs of the pads(non firction side)
Originally Posted By: oilcoholic
Waiting on the Rockauto shipment. I went tonight and got the CRC Disc Brake Quiet,
Do NOT use disc brake quiet on the Thermoquiets. They have a built-in insulator. These pads MUST be installed dry.
Elaborate! Are you sure? I use Permatex silicone brake lube on every brake job that I do regardless of the kind of brakes(semi-metalic, Ceramic etc.) And yes, I use it on the backs of the pads(non firction side)
It won't hurt to add additional anti squeal sauce to pads with shims. How could it? And why be so positive when warning about this? I am not saying it is necessary, but it won't hurt.
One thing: when you add sauce to a pad, install it right away and mash the pedal before it dries. Let the parts seat metal to metal, not with a dried rubbery coating in between [it will eventually seat in, but is not good procedure]. Get both sides at the same time, and you won't pop a piston out when you mash the pedal.
One thing: when you add sauce to a pad, install it right away and mash the pedal before it dries. Let the parts seat metal to metal, not with a dried rubbery coating in between [it will eventually seat in, but is not good procedure]. Get both sides at the same time, and you won't pop a piston out when you mash the pedal.
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I think that The Critics recommendation comes from several sources that claim that an adhesive added on the back of a SHIMMED pad will not allow the pad to slide within the caliper brackets and can actually cause the shims to detach from the pad.
Another explanation I heard was that the factory installed shims are engineered to reduce brake squeal and that any adhesive applied can mess up the "harmonics" (or whatever) of the shim design.
Both CRC and Permatex state that their products are for NON shimmed pads:
http://www.crcindustries.com/auto/content/prod_detail.aspx?PN=05016&S=N
http://www.permatex.com/products/Automot...Brake_Quiet.htm
CRC: "For use on the back of non-shimmed disc pads."
Permatex: "This product contains an elastomeric polymer for use with brake pads not having anti-squeal shims."
I imagine this is one of those things like the "no antiseize on lugnuts" debate. Seems like brake grease or moly paste on the shimmed pad backs would be o.k..
Another explanation I heard was that the factory installed shims are engineered to reduce brake squeal and that any adhesive applied can mess up the "harmonics" (or whatever) of the shim design.
Both CRC and Permatex state that their products are for NON shimmed pads:
http://www.crcindustries.com/auto/content/prod_detail.aspx?PN=05016&S=N
http://www.permatex.com/products/Automot...Brake_Quiet.htm
CRC: "For use on the back of non-shimmed disc pads."
Permatex: "This product contains an elastomeric polymer for use with brake pads not having anti-squeal shims."
I imagine this is one of those things like the "no antiseize on lugnuts" debate. Seems like brake grease or moly paste on the shimmed pad backs would be o.k..
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
I think that The Critics recommendation comes from several sources that claim that an adhesive added on the back of a SHIMMED pad will not allow the pad to slide within the caliper brackets and can actually cause the shims to detach from the pad.
Another explanation I heard was that the factory installed shims are engineered to reduce any brake squeal and that any adhesive applied can mess up the "harmonics" (or whatever) of the shim design.
Both CRC and Permatex state that their products are for NON shimmed pads:
http://www.crcindustries.com/auto/content/prod_detail.aspx?PN=05016&S=N
http://www.permatex.com/products/Automot...Brake_Quiet.htm
"This product contains an elastomeric polymer for use with brake pads not having anti-squeal shims."
Interesting. Just had an 01 Civic done by a high school auto tech teacher. We bought/supplied the Honda OE pads, which comes with pads, shims and sauce packet, all together. Not disputing anyone here just adding an FYI.
I think that The Critics recommendation comes from several sources that claim that an adhesive added on the back of a SHIMMED pad will not allow the pad to slide within the caliper brackets and can actually cause the shims to detach from the pad.
Another explanation I heard was that the factory installed shims are engineered to reduce any brake squeal and that any adhesive applied can mess up the "harmonics" (or whatever) of the shim design.
Both CRC and Permatex state that their products are for NON shimmed pads:
http://www.crcindustries.com/auto/content/prod_detail.aspx?PN=05016&S=N
http://www.permatex.com/products/Automot...Brake_Quiet.htm
"This product contains an elastomeric polymer for use with brake pads not having anti-squeal shims."
Interesting. Just had an 01 Civic done by a high school auto tech teacher. We bought/supplied the Honda OE pads, which comes with pads, shims and sauce packet, all together. Not disputing anyone here just adding an FYI.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: oilcoholic
Waiting on the Rockauto shipment. I went tonight and got the CRC Disc Brake Quiet,
Do NOT use disc brake quiet on the Thermoquiets. They have a built-in insulator. These pads MUST be installed dry.
Wagner Thermoquiet pads have a built-in insulator. It's essentially pad material that is molded onto a metal backing plate. These pads must be installed dry.
Here's some documentation from the Federal-Mogul Tech Center. Look on page 12:
http://www.centralpartsandsupply.com/specials_flyers/Brake noise & repair.pdf
"Wagner ThermoQuiet, with its patented IMI Sound Insulator design, requires that NO chemical compounds (EMP, Silicone Lubricants, Moly Lube, etc.) be placed on the insulator area of the disc brake pads. ThermoQuiet with the IMI Insulator is designed to be installed right out of the box and onto the vehicle. Use of chemicals on the insulator may reduce the insulator’s effectiveness."
Originally Posted By: sayjac
We bought/supplied the Honda OE pads, which comes with pads, shims and sauce packet, all together. Not disputing anyone here just adding an FYI.
The Honda pads include Molykote77, which is a lubricant, not a disc-brake quiet type product. Honda wants it applied to both sides of the shims and on the backing plate.
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Elaborate! Are you sure? I use Permatex silicone brake lube on every brake job that I do regardless of the kind of brakes(semi-metalic, Ceramic etc.) And yes, I use it on the backs of the pads(non firction side)
It is okay to use a silicone/synthetic/moly-based brake grease on the back of most shimmed pads. Now, whether or not it is needed is up for debate. However, using anything on the back of Wagner ThermoQuiet pads may cause problems.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
It won't hurt to add additional anti squeal sauce to pads with shims. How could it? And why be so positive when warning about this? I am not saying it is necessary, but it won't hurt.
One thing: when you add sauce to a pad, install it right away and mash the pedal before it dries. Let the parts seat metal to metal, not with a dried rubbery coating in between [it will eventually seat in, but is not good procedure]. Get both sides at the same time, and you won't pop a piston out when you mash the pedal.
As the Federal Mogul document states, it may cause the insulator to be less effective. On some pads with riveted shims, it may cause the shim to separate from the backing plate.
Originally Posted By: oilcoholic
Waiting on the Rockauto shipment. I went tonight and got the CRC Disc Brake Quiet,
Do NOT use disc brake quiet on the Thermoquiets. They have a built-in insulator. These pads MUST be installed dry.
Wagner Thermoquiet pads have a built-in insulator. It's essentially pad material that is molded onto a metal backing plate. These pads must be installed dry.
Here's some documentation from the Federal-Mogul Tech Center. Look on page 12:
http://www.centralpartsandsupply.com/specials_flyers/Brake noise & repair.pdf
"Wagner ThermoQuiet, with its patented IMI Sound Insulator design, requires that NO chemical compounds (EMP, Silicone Lubricants, Moly Lube, etc.) be placed on the insulator area of the disc brake pads. ThermoQuiet with the IMI Insulator is designed to be installed right out of the box and onto the vehicle. Use of chemicals on the insulator may reduce the insulator’s effectiveness."
Originally Posted By: sayjac
We bought/supplied the Honda OE pads, which comes with pads, shims and sauce packet, all together. Not disputing anyone here just adding an FYI.
The Honda pads include Molykote77, which is a lubricant, not a disc-brake quiet type product. Honda wants it applied to both sides of the shims and on the backing plate.
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Elaborate! Are you sure? I use Permatex silicone brake lube on every brake job that I do regardless of the kind of brakes(semi-metalic, Ceramic etc.) And yes, I use it on the backs of the pads(non firction side)
It is okay to use a silicone/synthetic/moly-based brake grease on the back of most shimmed pads. Now, whether or not it is needed is up for debate. However, using anything on the back of Wagner ThermoQuiet pads may cause problems.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
It won't hurt to add additional anti squeal sauce to pads with shims. How could it? And why be so positive when warning about this? I am not saying it is necessary, but it won't hurt.
One thing: when you add sauce to a pad, install it right away and mash the pedal before it dries. Let the parts seat metal to metal, not with a dried rubbery coating in between [it will eventually seat in, but is not good procedure]. Get both sides at the same time, and you won't pop a piston out when you mash the pedal.
As the Federal Mogul document states, it may cause the insulator to be less effective. On some pads with riveted shims, it may cause the shim to separate from the backing plate.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: oilcoholic
Waiting on the Rockauto shipment. I went tonight and got the CRC Disc Brake Quiet,
Do NOT use disc brake quiet on the Thermoquiets. They have a built-in insulator. These pads MUST be installed dry.
Why must they be installed dry? I use this on them.....Permatex spray on disc brake quiet
actually if you read some of their directions its wants you to use a lubricant on the back of the pads, they even give you a part number I believe in the box with the pads.....
in any event, the THOUSANDS of brake jobs we've done using thermoquiets and that spray, I can't think of any with a performance related problem, or a sound related problem that could have been sourced back to the spray on the back of the pad..........
Thermoquiets are a good back.... I would also replace the metal clips on the caliper bracket with new ones if your brake setup is so equipped............
Originally Posted By: oilcoholic
Waiting on the Rockauto shipment. I went tonight and got the CRC Disc Brake Quiet,
Do NOT use disc brake quiet on the Thermoquiets. They have a built-in insulator. These pads MUST be installed dry.
Why must they be installed dry? I use this on them.....Permatex spray on disc brake quiet
actually if you read some of their directions its wants you to use a lubricant on the back of the pads, they even give you a part number I believe in the box with the pads.....
in any event, the THOUSANDS of brake jobs we've done using thermoquiets and that spray, I can't think of any with a performance related problem, or a sound related problem that could have been sourced back to the spray on the back of the pad..........
Thermoquiets are a good back.... I would also replace the metal clips on the caliper bracket with new ones if your brake setup is so equipped............
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Originally Posted By: 38sho
Why must they be installed dry? I use this on them.....Permatex spray on disc brake quiet
actually if you read some of their directions its wants you to use a lubricant on the back of the pads, they even give you a part number I believe in the box with the pads.....
in any event, the THOUSANDS of brake jobs we've done using thermoquiets and that spray, I can't think of any with a performance related problem, or a sound related problem that could have been sourced back to the spray on the back of the pad..........
Thermoquiets are a good back.... I would also replace the metal clips on the caliper bracket with new ones if your brake setup is so equipped............
Please read my previous post--I gave an explanation along with documentation.
Why must they be installed dry? I use this on them.....Permatex spray on disc brake quiet
actually if you read some of their directions its wants you to use a lubricant on the back of the pads, they even give you a part number I believe in the box with the pads.....
in any event, the THOUSANDS of brake jobs we've done using thermoquiets and that spray, I can't think of any with a performance related problem, or a sound related problem that could have been sourced back to the spray on the back of the pad..........
Thermoquiets are a good back.... I would also replace the metal clips on the caliper bracket with new ones if your brake setup is so equipped............
Please read my previous post--I gave an explanation along with documentation.
So, you guys are saying to leave off the "disc Brake quiet" but still put the caliper lube on the pins, bushings,pistons, seals, and all metal to metal connections. NO STUFF ON THE BACK OF THE PAD, PERIOD!!
Originally Posted By: oilcoholic
So, you guys are saying to leave off the "disc Brake quiet" but still put the caliper lube on the pins, bushings,pistons, seals, and all metal to metal connections. NO STUFF ON THE BACK OF THE PAD, PERIOD!!
Correct.
Remember to wire brush the area under the clips on the mounting bracket and to replace the clips if they look worn. Worn clips can cause brake noise problems.
So, you guys are saying to leave off the "disc Brake quiet" but still put the caliper lube on the pins, bushings,pistons, seals, and all metal to metal connections. NO STUFF ON THE BACK OF THE PAD, PERIOD!!
Correct.
Remember to wire brush the area under the clips on the mounting bracket and to replace the clips if they look worn. Worn clips can cause brake noise problems.
Good information/explanations about the Honda pads and others, thanks.
Sounds like the ThermoQuiet pads are a good product. I see them on sale at Advance every once in a while.
Sounds like the ThermoQuiet pads are a good product. I see them on sale at Advance every once in a while.
Sauce is not recommended with shimmed pads simply because it is usually not needed with them.
NOT because of loss of any function!
NOT because of loss of any function!
The job is DONE! My brother-n-law's truck now has new Raybestos Pro. Grade Rotors and Wagner Thermoquiet Brakes. The hardest part of the whole job was getting the old rotors off. They had seized with rust. However, PB Blaster did the job. I let the rotors soak in the the Blaster while I cleaned all the other parts. We installed new caliper pins and caliper pin boots. Everything else looked great after cleaning and putting caliper lube on all the parts. The new brakes are QUIET! I did the bedding procedure and everything is good. He'll be stopping great for a while now. After removing the old rotors, we saw they could have been turned but he didn't want to be caught with needing new ones and having to pay local auto store prices when Rockauto had these for a good price. Total price for the rotors and brakes was $110 plus my 2 hot dogs and fries for lunch.
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