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#1734327 - 01/07/10 12:33 PM Transmission Fluid for PT Cruiser
DHall Offline


Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 3
Loc: North Carolina
Last week I had my local mechanic change and replenish all fluids (oil, trans fluid) also a lube . My 2002 Cruiser has 168,000 miles.


After I picked up my car I notice when I put on brakes to stop and the car downshifts, right at about 25/20 mph there is a jerk or shudder. This wasn't happening prior to the routine maintainance. I went back to the guy the next day and he said some Cruisers don't react well when the trans fluid has been flushed and refilled. He drove the car, added a fluid that he said was an additive to help. He says he used Penzoil Multivehcile (which he says is an ATF+4)

Any ideas?

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#1734337 - 01/07/10 12:44 PM Re: Transmission Fluid for PT Cruiser [Re: DHall]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 7031
Loc: Texas
The Cruiser still uses the old 41TE transaxle, which though VASTLY improved over its debut in 1989 is indeed very demanding about using nothing but a true ATF+III or later ATF+IV qualified fluid. Pennzoil Multi Vehicle ATF sure does NOT look like it meets ATF+IV to me:

pennzoil.com/documents/Multivehicle%20ATF.pdf

You can't simultaneously meet all those specs it specifically calls out and also meet ATF+IV to the best of my knowledge. Nowhere on there does it actually call out the 7176 spec, ATF+III, ATF+IV, or anything remotely like a real Chrysler spec.

The additive makes me doubly suspicious. I would get some REAL ATF+IV and do a couple of short-interval changes to flush all the unknown cr*p out of there.
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#1734343 - 01/07/10 12:50 PM Re: Transmission Fluid for PT Cruiser [Re: 440Magnum]
hate2work Offline


Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 4617
Loc: Western Washington

I would do a series of drain and refills with Amsoil ATF, that's the best fluid you could use and hopefully will help your shifting.

http://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?code=ATFQT-EA

Welcome to BITOG :)
_________________________

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#1734377 - 01/07/10 01:33 PM Re: Transmission Fluid for PT Cruiser [Re: hate2work]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 7031
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: hate2work

I would do a series of drain and refills with Amsoil ATF, that's the best fluid you could use and hopefully will help your shifting.

http://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?code=ATFQT-EA

Welcome to BITOG :)


Having been around Chryslers as long as I have, I would err on the side of a true ATF+IV fluid rather than a universal, even one as reputable as Amsoil. At least Amsoil's universal does claim ATF+IV compatibility and doesn't claim some impossible compatibility pairings like Dexron VI and ATF+IV, but I'd still go with the genuine 1-app fluid. Call me superstitious. The genuine article is also not overly expensive anymore now that its available in multiple brands.
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#1734404 - 01/07/10 02:03 PM Re: Transmission Fluid for PT Cruiser [Re: 440Magnum]
caravanmike Offline


Registered: 05/09/09
Posts: 1017
Loc: ohio
did he do a quick learn on the trans, so the clutch pack viscosity values (pressures) are re-learned? if not that is what you need! notice how it only does it on downshifts? that is the addaptive learning new pressure values! it usually takes 500 miles and around 70 key cycles (full warm up).

on second note penzoil multivehicle atf is a hfm fluid and will work but it is not ideal since it is not synthetic like atf+4. i would also put atf+4 back in the vehicle.
_________________________
Oils I use: Any 5w-30,5w-20 conventional
Filters I use: Purolator 14006, 20195, 22500

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#1734506 - 01/07/10 04:06 PM Re: Transmission Fluid for PT Cruiser [Re: caravanmike]
440Magnum Offline


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 7031
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: caravanmike
did he do a quick learn on the trans, so the clutch pack viscosity values (pressures) are re-learned? if not that is what you need! notice how it only does it on downshifts? that is the addaptive learning new pressure values! it usually takes 500 miles and around 70 key cycles (full warm up).



A quick-learn might fix the symptom... or just waiting for it to adapt might fix the symptom. But the thing is if just a fluid/filter change throws the clutch pack calibrations far enough off that the driver can feel it, then IMO it should be a warning that the fluid friction properties are substantially different (wrong) for the transmission. I never had to quick-learn one of my 41TE, 42LE, or 545RFE transmissions after just a fluid change. Even back in the early firmware and ATF+3 days when the ATF+3 FM package would "wear out" so badly by 60k miles that the TCC would be shuddering enough to loosen fillings.
_________________________
'66 Dodge Polara & '69 Dodge Coronet R/T both 440/727
'08 Ram 1500 4.7/545RFE
'12 Challenger SRT8 392/6-speed
'99 Cherokee 4.0, '11 Grand Cherokee 3.6

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#1734672 - 01/07/10 06:55 PM Re: Transmission Fluid for PT Cruiser [Re: 440Magnum]
caravanmike Offline


Registered: 05/09/09
Posts: 1017
Loc: ohio
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: caravanmike
did he do a quick learn on the trans, so the clutch pack viscosity values (pressures) are re-learned? if not that is what you need! notice how it only does it on downshifts? that is the addaptive learning new pressure values! it usually takes 500 miles and around 70 key cycles (full warm up).



A quick-learn might fix the symptom... or just waiting for it to adapt might fix the symptom. But the thing is if just a fluid/filter change throws the clutch pack calibrations far enough off that the driver can feel it, then IMO it should be a warning that the fluid friction properties are substantially different (wrong) for the transmission. I never had to quick-learn one of my 41TE, 42LE, or 545RFE transmissions after just a fluid change. Even back in the early firmware and ATF+3 days when the ATF+3 FM package would "wear out" so badly by 60k miles that the TCC would be shuddering enough to loosen fillings.


i have had to do quick learns on my 42rle and my 41te. even atf+4 shears, and that is what the tcm monitors. when you introduce new fluid (sometimes) that is a higher viscosity (new) the tcm applies the old viscosity pressures to the new fluid (harsh down shift) especially if you drive it hard and don't change you atf until around 100,000 miles. lots of variables can degrade the fluid. example mr. 16year old might shear his atf+4 in 40,000 miles because of his driving style (LOL). but my 90 year old mother might get her atf+4 to go 200,000 miles because of her driving style. mike


Edited by caravanmike (01/07/10 06:57 PM)
_________________________
Oils I use: Any 5w-30,5w-20 conventional
Filters I use: Purolator 14006, 20195, 22500

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#1738980 - 01/11/10 11:57 AM Re: Transmission Fluid for PT Cruiser [Re: caravanmike]
DHall Offline


Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 3
Loc: North Carolina
I would like to buy the fluid myself. Take the car back a couple of times and try to flush out what's there.

Where can I purchase the fluid (no dealership near me...they wnet bankrupt)? And what is the name of the fluid I need to purchase?

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#1739018 - 01/11/10 12:15 PM Re: Transmission Fluid for PT Cruiser [Re: DHall]
DHall Offline


Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 3
Loc: North Carolina
Also, do I need to request a full or power flush? I would think that you would not want to take a chance and mix old and new fluid....

Thanks for all your help!

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