My commute has me driving onto a freeway a few minutes after starting the car with the water temp barely indicating and then driving 4-5 miles until city driving for another few miles. Total trip time is 12-15 minutes and the outside temp is usually a several degrees above freezing and wet weather. Oil changes are every 3 months, not likely to go above 3000 miles in that time. How may this driving adversely affect my engine?
Is driving to 50 mph on cold engine harmful?
- Thread starter zoomie
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Won't really affect it at all, imho. Nearly everybody out there drives with the engine cold. Unless you are flooring it and driving it like heck immediately after starting it, it won't be an issue. Just take it a bit easy on it for the first couple minutes.
I've been doing that almost every day in my car for the past 3 years, hopping on the highway before the car's water temp has come up and I've had no issues at all.
Supposedly, the best strategy is to get the engine to near operating temperature in the fewest cycles as possible. So, lower RPM's at WOT are good to do on a cold start, until the temperature rises so it registers at the temp gauge. I drive it right after turning the key, and I try to keep it between 1300 to 2000 RPM initially, lots of WOT for the first few minutes. After like 4 minutes, it's probably mostly okay, and I'll drive normally. Key is definitely don't rev it high unless there's an emergency where you need to (also, under 1300 RPM's isn't great either as the oil pump will work weakly).
More during startup driving, but also generally, I probably lug the little 1.8 engine too much, and wonder what sort of adverse long term effects that will have longer down the road.
More during startup driving, but also generally, I probably lug the little 1.8 engine too much, and wonder what sort of adverse long term effects that will have longer down the road.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
That's probably one of the best ways to warm up your car and reduce wear, IMO. I would think that starting out on the highway at low load would result in a faster warm-up, and probably minimize fuel dilution and wear.
A little more highway time might be better for the oil; however, with such short OCI it's a non-issue.
What oil are you using?
Edit: just saw the post before mine. WOT at low RPM is not good for the engine at all. Lugging the engine and heavy load at low RPM are terrible for motors. Between 2-3k RPM at light to moderate throttle to warm up is best.
A little more highway time might be better for the oil; however, with such short OCI it's a non-issue.
What oil are you using?
Edit: just saw the post before mine. WOT at low RPM is not good for the engine at all. Lugging the engine and heavy load at low RPM are terrible for motors. Between 2-3k RPM at light to moderate throttle to warm up is best.
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Hi gathermewool, I know lugging it supposedly isn't good (not sure why? wears on valves, some fuel and combustion fumes blows into oil?)
I thought WOT is generally a good, and pretty efficient way to operate the engine (The point slightly before WOT would probably be better for efficiency and wear).
3000 rpms seems like almost revving it a bit.
I thought WOT is generally a good, and pretty efficient way to operate the engine (The point slightly before WOT would probably be better for efficiency and wear).
3000 rpms seems like almost revving it a bit.
Before I reach the highway theres almost 5 minutes of easy downgrade in which Im in gear with the RPMs over 1100, and as I understand, this puts the engine in DFCO i.e. no combustion in the cylinders, which means my engine not heating up and is performing compression braking at times while its cold vs me let it idle during this time with its inherent wear effects.
The oil in the engine is whatever bulk 5W-20 the Pontiac dealership is carrying when I take it in for its OCI. Ive seen Petro-Can and Shell being used the two times its been in thus far.
The oil in the engine is whatever bulk 5W-20 the Pontiac dealership is carrying when I take it in for its OCI. Ive seen Petro-Can and Shell being used the two times its been in thus far.
Unless I am badly mistaken, lugging the engine is bad because it imposes very high loads on the mains and the rod bearings.
You are forcing the engine to make enough power to maintain a given speed at excessively low revs, and you may be at an engine speed where oil volume supplied to the mains is not sufficient to keep up with the outflow of oil from the mains.
The very sound and feel of a lugging engine should be enough to convince anyone that lugging is to be avoided.
You are forcing the engine to make enough power to maintain a given speed at excessively low revs, and you may be at an engine speed where oil volume supplied to the mains is not sufficient to keep up with the outflow of oil from the mains.
The very sound and feel of a lugging engine should be enough to convince anyone that lugging is to be avoided.
Lugging is an old school term that has little bearing (pun?) on modern motors.
You will not damage any part of a healthy drivetrain by operating it at low revs with large throttle openings.
No carbs or vacuum advance involved here.
You will not damage any part of a healthy drivetrain by operating it at low revs with large throttle openings.
No carbs or vacuum advance involved here.
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Quote:
Is driving to 50 mph on cold engine harmful?
Sure. It's subjecting your engine to that "90% of all wear occurs at start up" that Castrol reminds you of from time to time. THE most wear causing part of operation.
The only thing that I can think of to minimize it is to install a block and/or pan warmer. Otherwise, you fall into the mass of people who do this daily ..as criminally negligent as it can seem
Is driving to 50 mph on cold engine harmful?
Sure. It's subjecting your engine to that "90% of all wear occurs at start up" that Castrol reminds you of from time to time. THE most wear causing part of operation.
The only thing that I can think of to minimize it is to install a block and/or pan warmer. Otherwise, you fall into the mass of people who do this daily ..as criminally negligent as it can seem
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
Is driving to 50 mph on cold engine harmful?
Sure. It's subjecting your engine to that "90% of all wear occurs at start up" that Castrol reminds you of from time to time. THE most wear causing part of operation.
The only thing that I can think of to minimize it is to install a block and/or pan warmer. Otherwise, you fall into the mass of people who do this daily ..as criminally negligent as it can seem
+1
Quote:
Is driving to 50 mph on cold engine harmful?
Sure. It's subjecting your engine to that "90% of all wear occurs at start up" that Castrol reminds you of from time to time. THE most wear causing part of operation.
The only thing that I can think of to minimize it is to install a block and/or pan warmer. Otherwise, you fall into the mass of people who do this daily ..as criminally negligent as it can seem
+1
What is the legal lowest speed anyways...
Originally Posted By: zoomie
Before I reach the highway theres almost 5 minutes of easy downgrade in which Im in gear with the RPMs over 1100, and as I understand, this puts the engine in DFCO i.e. no combustion in the cylinders, which means my engine not heating up and is performing compression braking at times while its cold vs me let it idle during this time with its inherent wear effects.
So, at least a little bit of heat is generated in the DFCO, from the heat caused in the air compression, and general friction.
Well, it sounds far from optimal, though I don't know whether it's sufficiently bad to be that concerned. If you have an oil that's decently viscous at 40C (at least the lukewarm coffee temps are achieved within like a minute of even just idling), and an oil with a good anti wear package, then you should probably not see all that much wear. Consider doing a UOA, that way you might see whether this is in fact a problem or not.
IMO, you might consider boosting additives, like boron, moly, zinc, while doing this commute, and going with a good winter oil during the coldest months.
One tip (I'm assuming you have manual shift), consider being out of gear or having the clutch down in some of what would usually be your downhill DFCO driving.
Before I reach the highway theres almost 5 minutes of easy downgrade in which Im in gear with the RPMs over 1100, and as I understand, this puts the engine in DFCO i.e. no combustion in the cylinders, which means my engine not heating up and is performing compression braking at times while its cold vs me let it idle during this time with its inherent wear effects.
So, at least a little bit of heat is generated in the DFCO, from the heat caused in the air compression, and general friction.
Well, it sounds far from optimal, though I don't know whether it's sufficiently bad to be that concerned. If you have an oil that's decently viscous at 40C (at least the lukewarm coffee temps are achieved within like a minute of even just idling), and an oil with a good anti wear package, then you should probably not see all that much wear. Consider doing a UOA, that way you might see whether this is in fact a problem or not.
IMO, you might consider boosting additives, like boron, moly, zinc, while doing this commute, and going with a good winter oil during the coldest months.
One tip (I'm assuming you have manual shift), consider being out of gear or having the clutch down in some of what would usually be your downhill DFCO driving.
In my vehicle, no way does driving it at 50 mph cold hurt the engine. Its only revving about 1300 rpm at 50. Heck, its only revving 1700 at 60 and 2100 at 70, and slightly more than 2400 at 80. None of these speeds will hurt a cold engine; anyway, by the time you get on an expressway and are able to legally do 60 or 70, the engine has plenty of heat in it.
Originally Posted By: zoomie
How may this driving adversely affect my engine?
It won't have any negative effect on your engine once it has been running for 1 minute and oil has circulated throughout the entire engine. However, WOT acceleration before the engine is up to normal operating temperaure is not recomended. If you are concerned about engine wear then switch to synthetic oil as it pumps faster and performs better at cold temperatures.
How may this driving adversely affect my engine?
It won't have any negative effect on your engine once it has been running for 1 minute and oil has circulated throughout the entire engine. However, WOT acceleration before the engine is up to normal operating temperaure is not recomended. If you are concerned about engine wear then switch to synthetic oil as it pumps faster and performs better at cold temperatures.
As long as you are not flooring it to get there, 50 MPH isn't a problem. My house is a mile from a main road with a 45 MPH speed limit. I just wait until there is a big enough gap in traffic for me to get up to speed without stomping on it when the truck is cold.
Ya know you really bought the car to drive so drive it as needed. It seems you are doing everything in the best possible way.
Vancouver cold? LOL
You guys in warmer locations crack me up every time you panic about cooler weather and engine operation.
When your engine is too cold to be operated normally you can both hear and feel the difference in both how it sounds and drives. If you have no idea what I am talking about then your engine has never been operated too cold.
If you have the right oil in your engine don't worry about it.
You guys in warmer locations crack me up every time you panic about cooler weather and engine operation.
When your engine is too cold to be operated normally you can both hear and feel the difference in both how it sounds and drives. If you have no idea what I am talking about then your engine has never been operated too cold.
If you have the right oil in your engine don't worry about it.
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gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Lugging is an old school term that has little bearing (pun?) on modern motors.
You will not damage any part of a healthy drivetrain by operating it at low revs with large throttle openings.
No carbs or vacuum advance involved here.
Modern cars are load limited by the ECU, and if your car is drive by wire (DBW) you flooring it to WOT won't cause the flapper to open any more than the ECU deems necessary.
As far as how much bearing lugging has on modern engines I guess I'm just old school - if I can even be old school at 26
. Never the less, I still believe that if you don't have enough torque to easily accelerate or need to go WOT just to get up to speed you need to hold off a bit on the shift. The simple fact is that you'll have less cylinder pressures, larger hydro-wedge as the rolly rollies start rollin, and less pressure perturbations causing excessive fatigue on relatively cold rings, lands and anything else that might be prone to cracking later on down the road. JMO.
FWIW, my gramma lugs her 97 Ranger all over the place, drives her trash 100 yards in the middle of winter to the road to be picked up once a week, has duct tape on her intake box to seal it, and generally neglects the poor truck, and it runs like a champ after nearly 100k. Maybe her truck will die an early death because of this at 150k or maybe it'll run forever. I don't know, but I still choose to over-maintain my vehicle for what we all like to have; peace of mind. My peace of mind includes warming my car up as quickly as possible with out lugging the motor, and getting over this whole spending-too-much-money-on-lubes-and-changing-them-out-too-soon kick - I'm at 5350 miles on this OCI in my Suby STI with RTS, and I've got the itch. But, I digress haha
Lugging is an old school term that has little bearing (pun?) on modern motors.
You will not damage any part of a healthy drivetrain by operating it at low revs with large throttle openings.
No carbs or vacuum advance involved here.
Modern cars are load limited by the ECU, and if your car is drive by wire (DBW) you flooring it to WOT won't cause the flapper to open any more than the ECU deems necessary.
As far as how much bearing lugging has on modern engines I guess I'm just old school - if I can even be old school at 26
FWIW, my gramma lugs her 97 Ranger all over the place, drives her trash 100 yards in the middle of winter to the road to be picked up once a week, has duct tape on her intake box to seal it, and generally neglects the poor truck, and it runs like a champ after nearly 100k. Maybe her truck will die an early death because of this at 150k or maybe it'll run forever. I don't know, but I still choose to over-maintain my vehicle for what we all like to have; peace of mind. My peace of mind includes warming my car up as quickly as possible with out lugging the motor, and getting over this whole spending-too-much-money-on-lubes-and-changing-them-out-too-soon kick - I'm at 5350 miles on this OCI in my Suby STI with RTS, and I've got the itch. But, I digress haha
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