Bill, I completely agree with you, you will not have 100% new fluid in there. I was just answering rcy's math question
Zerex Asian Vehicle antifreeze
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Well I don't dispute that if you keep diluting the cooling system with water you will end up with more water than coolant in the residual and would be more necessary to use a full strength. If you say you mesured what came out of a Corolla and there was a significant difference I won't argue. I didn't measure what came out of a Corolla I changed, and other cars, but it seemed pretty clear to me that I was putting back in the full capacity and very close to what came out.
I think a premix is fine even if you flush with water if you drain the block IMO. I think on a car with the cap on the radiator it is helpful to initially open the radiator drain with the radiator cap still on. I think this sucks the reservoir and upper radiator hose dry.
I think saying that when you drain the engine oil you don't get it all out either is a bad example. Coolant is not oil. Oil clings to things and could be trapped in hydraulic tappets and tensioners etc. But even then I think you get 95%+ out. when draining the radiator I'd think it would be even higher.
I think if someone wants to use the Toyota coolant and flush the system with water they will be OK if they drain the block.
I think a premix is fine even if you flush with water if you drain the block IMO. I think on a car with the cap on the radiator it is helpful to initially open the radiator drain with the radiator cap still on. I think this sucks the reservoir and upper radiator hose dry.
I think saying that when you drain the engine oil you don't get it all out either is a bad example. Coolant is not oil. Oil clings to things and could be trapped in hydraulic tappets and tensioners etc. But even then I think you get 95%+ out. when draining the radiator I'd think it would be even higher.
I think if someone wants to use the Toyota coolant and flush the system with water they will be OK if they drain the block.
Bill,
What % coolant do you reckon is left after you flush with water - 5%?
What % coolant do you reckon is left after you flush with water - 5%?
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Bill,
What % coolant do you reckon is left after you flush with water - 5%?
I do more than 1 flush (about 2-4 depending on how clear the water drains) so I'd say EASY less than 5%.
I'd rather waste a few gallons of water and make sure that when I add the straight coolant, the mix is going to be correct. I normally run a 60/40% mix.
Like I said in my other thread about coolant, things were a LOT easier back in the old days. Iron heads on a iron block with copper radiators and a flush kit was soooo nice.
No 50/50 mix in a jug. You could only buy straight coolant and you did the math.
Take care, Bill
Bill,
What % coolant do you reckon is left after you flush with water - 5%?
I do more than 1 flush (about 2-4 depending on how clear the water drains) so I'd say EASY less than 5%.
I'd rather waste a few gallons of water and make sure that when I add the straight coolant, the mix is going to be correct. I normally run a 60/40% mix.
Like I said in my other thread about coolant, things were a LOT easier back in the old days. Iron heads on a iron block with copper radiators and a flush kit was soooo nice.
No 50/50 mix in a jug. You could only buy straight coolant and you did the math.
Take care, Bill
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
If I'm going to do something, I want to make sure that I get it correctly. Plus I run more coolant than 50% which is impossible with a 50/50 mix.
Then we add the rip off of 50/50 mix...
If you want a greater than 50% concentration it's not happening with premix, even if you can find block drains and getting every ounce out.
As for the premix, the coolant manufacturers would much rather sell that.
If I'm going to do something, I want to make sure that I get it correctly. Plus I run more coolant than 50% which is impossible with a 50/50 mix.
Then we add the rip off of 50/50 mix...
If you want a greater than 50% concentration it's not happening with premix, even if you can find block drains and getting every ounce out.
As for the premix, the coolant manufacturers would much rather sell that.
Bill I like your strategy, stock one coolant, concentrate only.
Somewhat off topic, but I have a coolant refractometer at work and I have used it for about 4 or 5 vehicle radiator fluid flush and fills. I followed Bill's method, but with more distilled water fill and flushes (4 -5).
After installing 1/2 of the operator's manual specified coolant capacity, I was amazed that the final coolant % ranged from a low of about 45% to a high near 58%.
While these ratios are just fine, I was surprised how far off it was following the 1/2 of listed capacity rule. My John Deere tractors are the worst.
Just some "FYI" stuff. Refractometers are fun to play with and much better than the Prestone floating dial types.
After installing 1/2 of the operator's manual specified coolant capacity, I was amazed that the final coolant % ranged from a low of about 45% to a high near 58%.
While these ratios are just fine, I was surprised how far off it was following the 1/2 of listed capacity rule. My John Deere tractors are the worst.
Just some "FYI" stuff. Refractometers are fun to play with and much better than the Prestone floating dial types.
Originally Posted By: Dan55
Bill I like your strategy, stock one coolant, concentrate only.
So far the Corolla, Dad's 05 Honda powered Vue, Mom's 2002 4.8l V8Chevy truck and tomarrow my 04 4.3l V6 GMC truck will be/are using Peak Global lifetime coolant.
The Subaru will get the same next weekend.
I'm done with trying to figure out what coolant to use. What data I've read this coolant will cover with no issues anything I'm going to own.
Take care, bill
Bill I like your strategy, stock one coolant, concentrate only.
So far the Corolla, Dad's 05 Honda powered Vue, Mom's 2002 4.8l V8Chevy truck and tomarrow my 04 4.3l V6 GMC truck will be/are using Peak Global lifetime coolant.
The Subaru will get the same next weekend.
I'm done with trying to figure out what coolant to use. What data I've read this coolant will cover with no issues anything I'm going to own.
Take care, bill
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Somewhat off topic, but I have a coolant refractometer at work and I have used it for about 4 or 5 vehicle radiator fluid flush and fills. I followed Bill's method, but with more distilled water fill and flushes (4 -5).
After installing 1/2 of the operator's manual specified coolant capacity, I was amazed that the final coolant % ranged from a low of about 45% to a high near 58%.
While these ratios are just fine, I was surprised how far off it was following the 1/2 of listed capacity rule. My John Deere tractors are the worst.
Just some "FYI" stuff. Refractometers are fun to play with and much better than the Prestone floating dial types.
Did you measure the coolant % of the flushes? If so, what were the values? Do you chalk up that variation to manuals being so off on coolant capacity? If not, what then?
Somewhat off topic, but I have a coolant refractometer at work and I have used it for about 4 or 5 vehicle radiator fluid flush and fills. I followed Bill's method, but with more distilled water fill and flushes (4 -5).
After installing 1/2 of the operator's manual specified coolant capacity, I was amazed that the final coolant % ranged from a low of about 45% to a high near 58%.
While these ratios are just fine, I was surprised how far off it was following the 1/2 of listed capacity rule. My John Deere tractors are the worst.
Just some "FYI" stuff. Refractometers are fun to play with and much better than the Prestone floating dial types.
Did you measure the coolant % of the flushes? If so, what were the values? Do you chalk up that variation to manuals being so off on coolant capacity? If not, what then?
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Dan55
Bill I like your strategy, stock one coolant, concentrate only.
So far the Corolla, Dad's 05 Honda powered Vue, Mom's 2002 4.8l V8Chevy truck and tomarrow my 04 4.3l V6 GMC truck will be/are using Peak Global lifetime coolant.
The Subaru will get the same next weekend.
I'm done with trying to figure out what coolant to use. What data I've read this coolant will cover with no issues anything I'm going to own.
Take care, bill
Bill,
You are the Man! Now, that's what Im talking about, someone that has come to the conclusion that PGLT is the coolant to use in all applications. We currently have in our family fleet:
GM(Pontiac), Mazda3 2.0(Ford), Lexus(Toyota) and Nissan(Altima 2.5). I looking for a one product fits all coolant. Would love to find an ATF that works in all of them.
Originally Posted By: Dan55
Bill I like your strategy, stock one coolant, concentrate only.
So far the Corolla, Dad's 05 Honda powered Vue, Mom's 2002 4.8l V8Chevy truck and tomarrow my 04 4.3l V6 GMC truck will be/are using Peak Global lifetime coolant.
The Subaru will get the same next weekend.
I'm done with trying to figure out what coolant to use. What data I've read this coolant will cover with no issues anything I'm going to own.
Take care, bill
Bill,
You are the Man! Now, that's what Im talking about, someone that has come to the conclusion that PGLT is the coolant to use in all applications. We currently have in our family fleet:
GM(Pontiac), Mazda3 2.0(Ford), Lexus(Toyota) and Nissan(Altima 2.5). I looking for a one product fits all coolant. Would love to find an ATF that works in all of them.
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Did you measure the coolant % of the flushes? If so, what were the values? Do you chalk up that variation to manuals being so off on coolant capacity? If not, what then?
No, I did not measure the coolant content of the final flush. That's a good idea and I will do that next time. But, I have unlimited D.I water available at work and I "kind of" go overboard on the number of flushes I do...more like 5 or 6 in reality.
Why the discrepancy? Maybe there is more coolant left in the system after multiple flushes than we think (this doesn't explain the 2 instances of readings less than 50%).
I really think that the manuals are off a bit. I am convinced that the John Deere manuals are off because of the care I did in flushing, and, the systems are simpler/easier to flush (one model was a blatant mistake that I brought to the attention of their main office).
I checked the accuracy of the refractometer by measuring out a 50/50 mix of coolant with a graduated pipette.
Did you measure the coolant % of the flushes? If so, what were the values? Do you chalk up that variation to manuals being so off on coolant capacity? If not, what then?
No, I did not measure the coolant content of the final flush. That's a good idea and I will do that next time. But, I have unlimited D.I water available at work and I "kind of" go overboard on the number of flushes I do...more like 5 or 6 in reality.
Why the discrepancy? Maybe there is more coolant left in the system after multiple flushes than we think (this doesn't explain the 2 instances of readings less than 50%).
I really think that the manuals are off a bit. I am convinced that the John Deere manuals are off because of the care I did in flushing, and, the systems are simpler/easier to flush (one model was a blatant mistake that I brought to the attention of their main office).
I checked the accuracy of the refractometer by measuring out a 50/50 mix of coolant with a graduated pipette.
I, too, have come to the conclusion that Peak Global is the best of the coolants that are not factory specific. With regard to percentages, the AMSOIL chart lists the capacity of coolant in engines. When you loosen the bottom tap on the radiator, let's say about 1/2 of the total drains out. When you refill with water and run the engine, the resulting mix is about 50% fresh water to 50% old mix. Do it again, and it is about 25% old. Again, and it is 12.5% old. Do it five times and there will be about 3% of the old mix left. Even then, what is drained will still be tinted with the color of the coolant. If less than 1/2 the capacity drains from the radiator, it will take more flushes to get the old mix lower. After doing this in a couple cars, I have also come to the conclusion that is is a lot easier to drain and refill every couple of years, even if you have a "lifetime" coolant.
Mark
Mark
Dumb question-does the Peak Global (assuming one can even FIND it) have the same phosphate (silicate-FREE) chemistry as the original Toyota coolant? I'm going to flush my xB in the spring-I'll start with full-strength Toyota red, top off w/the Xerex Asian 50/50.
PGL is phosphate and silicate free, and 2eha free. However, Toyota's coolant chemistry actually has some phosphate in it.
That might be a big deal to some, not to me.
That might be a big deal to some, not to me.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
PGL is phosphate and silicate free, and 2eha free. However, Toyota's coolant chemistry actually has some phosphate in it.
That might be a big deal to some, not to me.
Not me either. Dexcool protects aluminum good without phosphates and so I don't see why PGL can't as well. I just wish more was known about PGL's OAT inhibitors, but it seems to be safer than 2eha as far as with air causing sludging and gasket eating potential. I think the Japanese coolant is nothing special and a weak OAT, but on the other hand they act like it can go 10 years on the FF so??
PGL is phosphate and silicate free, and 2eha free. However, Toyota's coolant chemistry actually has some phosphate in it.
That might be a big deal to some, not to me.
Not me either. Dexcool protects aluminum good without phosphates and so I don't see why PGL can't as well. I just wish more was known about PGL's OAT inhibitors, but it seems to be safer than 2eha as far as with air causing sludging and gasket eating potential. I think the Japanese coolant is nothing special and a weak OAT, but on the other hand they act like it can go 10 years on the FF so??
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The main reason I want to stick with phosphate-based inhibitors is the apparent ZERO buildup & problems that people are reporting with it-that xB toaster is going to be around until the body RUSTS OFF!
Yeah but phosphates don't really prevent deposits at least not with water that has minerals. that why European manufactures don't want phosphates. It helps protect aluminum, but like I said Dexcool with no phosphates protects aluminum very well and no depositis providing no air is in the system.
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Dan55
Bill I like your strategy, stock one coolant, concentrate only.
So far the Corolla, Dad's 05 Honda powered Vue, Mom's 2002 4.8l V8Chevy truck and tomarrow my 04 4.3l V6 GMC truck will be/are using Peak Global lifetime coolant.
The Subaru will get the same next weekend.
I'm done with trying to figure out what coolant to use. What data I've read this coolant will cover with no issues anything I'm going to own.
Take care, bill
Bill,
You are the Man! Now, that's what Im talking about, someone that has come to the conclusion that PGLT is the coolant to use in all applications. We currently have in our family fleet:
GM(Pontiac), Mazda3 2.0(Ford), Lexus(Toyota) and Nissan(Altima 2.5). I looking for a one product fits all coolant. Would love to find an ATF that works in all of them.
Amsoil ATF.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Dan55
Bill I like your strategy, stock one coolant, concentrate only.
So far the Corolla, Dad's 05 Honda powered Vue, Mom's 2002 4.8l V8Chevy truck and tomarrow my 04 4.3l V6 GMC truck will be/are using Peak Global lifetime coolant.
The Subaru will get the same next weekend.
I'm done with trying to figure out what coolant to use. What data I've read this coolant will cover with no issues anything I'm going to own.
Take care, bill
Bill,
You are the Man! Now, that's what Im talking about, someone that has come to the conclusion that PGLT is the coolant to use in all applications. We currently have in our family fleet:
GM(Pontiac), Mazda3 2.0(Ford), Lexus(Toyota) and Nissan(Altima 2.5). I looking for a one product fits all coolant. Would love to find an ATF that works in all of them.
Amsoil ATF.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Dan55
Bill I like your strategy, stock one coolant, concentrate only.
So far the Corolla, Dad's 05 Honda powered Vue, Mom's 2002 4.8l V8Chevy truck and tomarrow my 04 4.3l V6 GMC truck will be/are using Peak Global lifetime coolant.
The Subaru will get the same next weekend.
I'm done with trying to figure out what coolant to use. What data I've read this coolant will cover with no issues anything I'm going to own.
Take care, bill
January 2012 all of your engines will protest your use of the use of Peak Global. The Scoobiedoo will be the worst.
Originally Posted By: Dan55
Bill I like your strategy, stock one coolant, concentrate only.
So far the Corolla, Dad's 05 Honda powered Vue, Mom's 2002 4.8l V8Chevy truck and tomarrow my 04 4.3l V6 GMC truck will be/are using Peak Global lifetime coolant.
The Subaru will get the same next weekend.
I'm done with trying to figure out what coolant to use. What data I've read this coolant will cover with no issues anything I'm going to own.
Take care, bill
January 2012 all of your engines will protest your use of the use of Peak Global. The Scoobiedoo will be the worst.
What is so wrong with paying $5.00 for a half gallon of deionized water?
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