Breaking in a new rebuilt engine

[Corvette Owner]

Here is a recommendation from Corvette Forum on breaking in a newly rebuilt motor. Any comments?

I never heard of "Joe Gibbs Break in oil" ?

"Don't switch to synthetic for at least 2500 miles. With your high tension rings, the synthetic will immediately stop ALL break in. But the organic oil will continue to allow the rings to seat.

Running regular oil will cost you about 10rwhp on the dyno, but I have seen it a million times. The guy switches to synthetic, then begins complaining he has oil consumption and/or blow by. Alot of times this is because he switches over to a synthetic based oil to soon.

Seriously, as an engine builder, it is not something we EVER reccomend. There is 100 different theories on how to seat the rings. But when it comes to oil use, safe is ALWAYS better.

After about 2500 miles, then, and only then, switch to synthetic.

Our recommended break-in is as follows:

* Joe Gibbs Break in oil 10/30 with high ZDDP, and filter for 30 minutes. Then change filter.
* Change oil/Filter again at 2 hours, or 150 miles
* Joe Gibbs break in oil with high ZDDP and new filter for additional 250 miles. Then change oil/filter
* Regular 10/30 and good filter for additional 2000 miles. At 2000 miles, check your oil consumption. if you are fine, then switch to synthetic. If not, run hard to 3000 miles. Then swap to synthetic regardless.

This is our required break in for our customers motors.

OE rings, OE replacements, and a lot of the low tension rings have extremely fast break in periods. But the moly steel rings don't break in that easy."

 

[eagle23]

I haven't heard of Joe Gibbs oil, but the approach recommended is one I have heard for decades. While the new Vette engines come with synthetic (M1 as I recall) they also are very well machined.

The approach this fellow recommended is really ultra-conservative in my view, with lots of upsides and little on the downside other than the frequent oil/filter changes. It assumes there is lots of initial wear, so getting the filter changed ASAP is right on.

Using conventional HDEO oil would probably get you the extra zinc etc. (I would guess that an alternative is an SL-rated oil.) Once you get 2-3000 miles, you're good to go.

I am curious of others' views on this, but agree with the no synthetics initially. Oils today are so good anyway the use of a conventional for the first few thousand miles to get everything seated isn't going to influence ultimate engine longevity.

 

[Rico567]

"But the organic oil will continue to allow the rings to seat."

All oil is organic, insofar as hydrocarbons are organic molecules. "Dino" oil is probably a better term here, for lack of a better....and "non-synthetic" lacks pizazz.

 

[Rand]

There is a world of difference between a rebuilt hi-performance motor.. and a factory motor.

Seems a reasonable safe breakin procedure for the engine hes recommending it for.

In the abscence of Joe Gibbs racing oil. I'd recommend a 10w30 hdeo oil but those are hard to find too..

rotella T 10w30 , chevron delo 10w30 etc. CI-4+ spec

 

[mechtech2]

Like Rand pointed out, good luck getting an aftermarket rebuild to be up to modern factory standards.
In particular, it is tough to replicate the fine bore finishing that the factories put out.

The recommendations for engine break in and future use in that Corvette Forum [http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/oil/] are primarily concerned with high performance cam wear and problems.
Bearings never touch, and ZDDP is not affecting the ring/bore break in.

 

[pcfxer]

..annd that would prove that conventional oil provides LESS wear protection!

There is conflicting info about break-in though. We WANT wear but then switch face and jack up zinc and posphorous...it doesn't make sense at all. If you want wear, get the cheapest darn dino oil you can find that is surely Group II.

10W-30 HDEOs aren't hard to find at all, Amsoil supplies 10w-30 HDEO for $41.20/gallon List price on their website.

 

[NHHEMI]

Quote:

Don't switch to synthetic for at least 2500 miles. With your high tension rings, the synthetic will immediately stop ALL break in.


I stopped reading there. All I needed to read to know I had seen enough. That is [censored]. Rings will seat and everything will break in properly just fine if synthetic is used from day one. Period and end of story.

You don't have to do it and waiting to 2500 miles is certainly ok but the quote above is just wrong.

 

[mechanicx]

I would say synthetic oils wouldn't impede fast break-in of high tension steel moly rings, but some of the EP, anti-wear additives in the oil regardless whether it's a dino base or synthetic might be more of a factor. I don't think the base oil being synthetic would be that much of an issue.

 

[HyperJinx]

My Vette came from the factory with synthtic 5W30 in the pan. I did change the oil and filter around 1,500 miles for peace of mind.

I agree with the others who say that synthetic is NOT going to ruin the breakin of your engine. I suggest that any new car owner read his owners manual cover to cover and follow its recomendations during the warranty period.

 

[deoxy4]

You may find this article of some interest.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1682219&page=1

 

[Steve S]

Not all syn oil base stocks are the same. GP III and Pao are really not a whole lot different than dino oil where as a real good diester or polyolester could make a difference. But then with enough of a load on the rings I would bet they will seat. The nice thing doing a dino oil break in is that doing a few short oil and filter changes to get the crud out will be done due to the lower cost.

 

[genynnc]

To be honest, Corvette Owner, it's hard to comment specifically because there's a lot of the story left untold and variables.
exist.

Is this in reference to a Gen 1 or II SBC? Or a LS-1 type?

If a Gen I or II- is it a flat tappet cam or roller?

Ring packages are radically different in terms of material, end widths, and applied inlays for the various GM V8 families. Throw in a HP street build and the variables grow exponentially.

I think the changing of oil very frequently is overkill by the gentleman. Not to mention that's A LOT OF CHANGE for the Joe Gibbs stuff.

I would change it after the first 30 min of breakin.
Then after 1,500 miles, then 3,000 after that and begin your desired OCI.

I build a lot of SBC's for friends because they don't have the tools, space, or knowledge. I'm not a pro, just an amateur- but I have a few SBC breakins under my belt.

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here but I would say that the most important part of ring seal (and break in) relies on the quality of the machine work, specifically the bore and honing process. If the work was done with torque plates and plateu honed to the RA finish of said ring manufacture's specs then washed thoroughly and thoroughly again to rid cylinders of metal/debris- then I don't think oil should really be much of a factor- either way (dino or synthetic).

Personaly, I do things the old fashion way and use a quality conventional HDEO. Only so because with one engine that I was actually building for myself, I did swtich to synthetic after the first 30 min and the moly rings never sealed. I gave it 5,000 miles and it continued to smoke. I don't necessarily blame that on the synthetic though, it was probably the machine work. But since money doesn't grow on trees and I'm not 100% sure, then I play on the side that makes me feel a little better and that's not using synthetic until 3-5K.

 

[JohnBrowning]

First the guy is full of it with "organic oil" their is nothing "organic about dino oil" it did not really come from dinosaurs that is just a crude joke. If you eat raw crude it can kill. ON top of that their is nothing but carbon chains and fat acids and such in crude mixed in with a lot of other stuff like sulfar, various minerals and gas's etc.........This guys makes it sound like you are putting your car on a "raw diet"......LOL!!!

First youhqave to start the darn thing up and run it at 2000 RPM's or higher for the first 20-30 minutes with no load on it. If you use a lube that has solids in it like moly ep grease after that 20 minutes it is time to change the oil and filter as those solids will have it pluged up!

Refill with a nice 15W40 diesel oil and go drive the snot out of it. The first 50 miles are the true break in miles that make all the difference in the world. You need to do lots of 3/4 and WOT runs and use engine breaking to lift the rings out of their seats and repeat.Drive it hard the first 50 miles and you will never have any ring issues if you did everything else right. It will not use much oil or anything.

On top of that who use's high tension rings today on a rebuild OEM use's low tension rings and even on an older rebuild like say a Ford 427 side oiler all you have to do is ask for under cut rings and that means low tension. Most engine builders use low tension because it free's up HP OEM's use it because it improves fuel ecoonomy and makes break in less of an issue.

Drive the snot out of it for about 50-100 miles on the diesel oil then change to a 5W40 diesel oil you can keep this newer filter in place since it will be low milage just do not keep the one that was used for the 20 minute run in.

Joe Gibbs Break In Oil is good stuff but not really needed if you used a good assembly lube like Redline assembly lube or Comp Cams assembly lube etc......

When you break an engine in on a dyno for a race car you are not doing slow gentle runs you are doing some hard hard run's then letting the engine cool and repeating.


Moutune USA has some great advice on break in.

Synthetic oil molakules are not in any way going to stop a ring from seating it is not even in the realm of possabilities. It would be like someone saying something like eating onins will cure aids that is how stupid and ignorant it is. It just shows their total lack of understanding of what an oil molkule looks like and what it can and cannot do as far as interacting with metal.In fact most so called synthetics are made from highly processed slack wax or dino oil to make it simple. So how does highly refined dino slack wax stop a piston ring from contacting the cylinder wall? I would love to hear the explanation. Break in happens when the pointy aspeirieties onthe rings get rubed down smoother and walls of the bore get worn to match the ring. This means they have to contact each other. So how does dino improve metal to metal contact or more to the point how does a GIII dino calling itself synthetic prevent this!

 

[JohnBrowning]

When I bought my Camry my Dad was with me. He was grabbing the oh sh## handle that all Toyota's have sometimes called an assist handle by parts guys! He thought I wass flogging the tar out of my car and he was right. I was. I made the chase scences in Bullit and Borne Identy look like a Sunday drive. To this day my car gets far better then OEM fuel ecconomy, produces insanely low wear number on UOA and does not burn a drop of oil not even dino which I just put in after 6 years of useing synthetic!

So drive it hard change it often the first 500 miles and then go to the best synthetic youc an afford.

 

[glen242]

Corvette Owner:

When I rebuilt my flat tappet Corvette engine 4 years ago, I used Valvoline VR-1 oil and a bottle of GM EOS.

Since then, I have only used Valvoline VR-1 10W-30, as it has ZDDP of 0.14/0.13. Cam is a CC XE274H.

Noproblems!

 

[HyperJinx]

I am no expert and my comments are not to be taken as some suggestion to change anyones opinion. I offer my opinons for debate only. That being said:

I am just a common joe and have been around a while. I have owned cars from the 60's-70's-80's-90's up to 2007. I do believe in breaking in a new cam. Other than that, I myself have not ever thought too much about breakin other than basic common sense. I have always changed the oil and filter of a newly rebuilt engine as soon as the cam in broken in 20min or so. Then again around 500 miles and for the first 2500miles I drive like a normal person and no high revs or no long distant constant speeds, just the basic considerations. If I want to use synthetic oil, I will switch around 5k miles just for good measure. This is what I have done all my life without any ill effects. I am no expert and I may be wrong or even backwards but it works for me and appeals to my logic.