Longevity of a Ford Modular
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Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
Originally Posted By: ADFD1
Just out of curiosity how is the Chrysler 3.7L they use in some of the Jeeps?
The 3.7 is the same as the 4.7 just minus two cylinders!....As durable as the Chrysler 4.7!
Thanks I come from a family of Ford owners, so I'm not sure about Chrysler, I know some of the Durango's had sludge issues. I was wondering about the 3.7L my GF has in her 08 Liberty.
Originally Posted By: ADFD1
Just out of curiosity how is the Chrysler 3.7L they use in some of the Jeeps?
The 3.7 is the same as the 4.7 just minus two cylinders!....As durable as the Chrysler 4.7!
Thanks I come from a family of Ford owners, so I'm not sure about Chrysler, I know some of the Durango's had sludge issues. I was wondering about the 3.7L my GF has in her 08 Liberty.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
3V 4.6 and 5.4 truck/SUV engines have always had iron blocks.
The only aluminum block 5.4 ever offered came in the Ford GT, and there's a another one showing up in the '11 GT500, but they are both 4Vs.
Not entirely true, I have seen some Explorers w/4.6 3 valve that had aluminum blocks.
3V 4.6 and 5.4 truck/SUV engines have always had iron blocks.
The only aluminum block 5.4 ever offered came in the Ford GT, and there's a another one showing up in the '11 GT500, but they are both 4Vs.
Not entirely true, I have seen some Explorers w/4.6 3 valve that had aluminum blocks.
Originally Posted By: ADFD1
Just out of curiosity how is the Chrysler 3.7L they use in some of the Jeeps?
Structurally, its a 4.7 SOHC v8 (iron block, chain timed) with two cylinders removed. The Chrysler 4.7 and Ford Modular 4.6 are *very* similar in basic architecture, so the Chrysler 3.7 is also more like a Modular than the 3.5 (2nd gen) all aluminum engine.
HOEWVER, the problem with the 3.7 is that like the Buick 3.8 and Chevy 4.3 Vortec, its a 90-degree block. The crank pins are splayed, but only partially because that was the best compromise between smoothness and crank strength. That leaves the 3.7 a slightly odd-firing design. Fine for truck use, but not the best for high RPM or sustained high power operation. The 3.5 is a fully even-firing 60-degree engine, like the Chrysler 3.8 used in the Jeep Wrangler for example (also an iron block nearly indestructable engine- but again more tailored for truck use than high performance.)
The draw of the SOHC 3.5 HO engine for the Charger Police Package is raw power with light weight and better efficiency. A 3.5L Charger will beat a 4.6L CVPI in both top speed and acceleration. The downside is its got a shorter fuse- its just not a 400k mile engine. Of course the 5.7 Hemi is also available, and it *should* more or less match the 4.6 for longevity- iron block, forged crank, chain timed, etc. The jury's still out because its just not old enough to trickle down to taxi fleets yet. I do have to wonder why they were so determined to beat the CVPI with their lower-option police car, which they freely admit was aimed at city patrols. I guess it does provide a more "dual duty" car for departments that want it. A lower-powered engine like the 3.8 or 3.7 already mentioned should be fine for patrol work- leave the high-speed tire-smoking screaming to the 5.7 version.
Just out of curiosity how is the Chrysler 3.7L they use in some of the Jeeps?
Structurally, its a 4.7 SOHC v8 (iron block, chain timed) with two cylinders removed. The Chrysler 4.7 and Ford Modular 4.6 are *very* similar in basic architecture, so the Chrysler 3.7 is also more like a Modular than the 3.5 (2nd gen) all aluminum engine.
HOEWVER, the problem with the 3.7 is that like the Buick 3.8 and Chevy 4.3 Vortec, its a 90-degree block. The crank pins are splayed, but only partially because that was the best compromise between smoothness and crank strength. That leaves the 3.7 a slightly odd-firing design. Fine for truck use, but not the best for high RPM or sustained high power operation. The 3.5 is a fully even-firing 60-degree engine, like the Chrysler 3.8 used in the Jeep Wrangler for example (also an iron block nearly indestructable engine- but again more tailored for truck use than high performance.)
The draw of the SOHC 3.5 HO engine for the Charger Police Package is raw power with light weight and better efficiency. A 3.5L Charger will beat a 4.6L CVPI in both top speed and acceleration. The downside is its got a shorter fuse- its just not a 400k mile engine. Of course the 5.7 Hemi is also available, and it *should* more or less match the 4.6 for longevity- iron block, forged crank, chain timed, etc. The jury's still out because its just not old enough to trickle down to taxi fleets yet. I do have to wonder why they were so determined to beat the CVPI with their lower-option police car, which they freely admit was aimed at city patrols. I guess it does provide a more "dual duty" car for departments that want it. A lower-powered engine like the 3.8 or 3.7 already mentioned should be fine for patrol work- leave the high-speed tire-smoking screaming to the 5.7 version.
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Originally Posted By: Jason2007
The 3 valve 4.6 and 5.4 have always been aluminum block and heads with a plastic intake and there have been no issues reported yet.
The alumium ones are not used in copcar OR truck duty. They do at least have the advantage of being chain-timed over the Chrysler 3.5, but other than that they'd also be a "shorter fuse" engine than the good old low power-density 2-valve iron block Modular 4.6.
The 3 valve 4.6 and 5.4 have always been aluminum block and heads with a plastic intake and there have been no issues reported yet.
The alumium ones are not used in copcar OR truck duty. They do at least have the advantage of being chain-timed over the Chrysler 3.5, but other than that they'd also be a "shorter fuse" engine than the good old low power-density 2-valve iron block Modular 4.6.
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Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
Originally Posted By: Johnny
I've owned a lot of cars in my lifetime and none more enjoyable to drive on a daily basis than my 2005 Grand Marquis.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
+1
Originally Posted By: Johnny
I've owned a lot of cars in my lifetime and none more enjoyable to drive on a daily basis than my 2005 Grand Marquis.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
+1
What 5W20 have to do with it? I can find hundreds of examples of Toyota going 300,000 miles on cheap bulk 5W30 from the 1970-1980's but that does not mean that 5W30 oil from that time frame is anything special or even responsibility for the long life? Plus 300,000 is nothing I pretty much expect that type of life cycle even if I followed the OEM's longer OCI with Juiffy Lube bulk oil.
Even I agree that 5W20 in those applications calling for it seems to work just fine so what point do you think you have proven. I still will never use a 5W20 or 0W20. They are not solving any problem I have. In fact I fail to see where 5W20 or 0W20 solve any existing problem at all they where and still are a solution looking for a problem. I know all kinds of people that routinely got long life from dino 5W30 but I have used synthetic since 1988 in my vehicles. Does that mean I should never have gone to synthetic just because the vast majority of the world gets long engine life with dino?
Either your logic is weak for your argument or your evidence does not prove anything and does not move anyone from their current belief. It says that under extreme conditions taxi and or police fleets got long life using 5W20 or something to that effect.What does that have to do with my ability or desire to select what I think is best for my engine? Last I checked those things you find in owner's manuals are not edicts or laws or even terms one has to agree to prior to purchase to maintain the warranty they are "recomendations" and the word recomd's or some form of that will appear often not "we require"!I believe I was created with a mind, free will and the ability to discern many things so why would I give that all away because of a recomendation? We would definitely not need BITOG to meet and talk about oil if we all followed the pack now would we!America was built by rugged individuals and prizes that we are not ones to fall in line and do what we are told!
Even I agree that 5W20 in those applications calling for it seems to work just fine so what point do you think you have proven. I still will never use a 5W20 or 0W20. They are not solving any problem I have. In fact I fail to see where 5W20 or 0W20 solve any existing problem at all they where and still are a solution looking for a problem. I know all kinds of people that routinely got long life from dino 5W30 but I have used synthetic since 1988 in my vehicles. Does that mean I should never have gone to synthetic just because the vast majority of the world gets long engine life with dino?
Either your logic is weak for your argument or your evidence does not prove anything and does not move anyone from their current belief. It says that under extreme conditions taxi and or police fleets got long life using 5W20 or something to that effect.What does that have to do with my ability or desire to select what I think is best for my engine? Last I checked those things you find in owner's manuals are not edicts or laws or even terms one has to agree to prior to purchase to maintain the warranty they are "recomendations" and the word recomd's or some form of that will appear often not "we require"!I believe I was created with a mind, free will and the ability to discern many things so why would I give that all away because of a recomendation? We would definitely not need BITOG to meet and talk about oil if we all followed the pack now would we!America was built by rugged individuals and prizes that we are not ones to fall in line and do what we are told!
Originally Posted By: GMFan
I've been in NYC taxi crown vics with 300k+ miles on them and the cab drivers either have the gas or brakes floored. A/C is always ice cold too.
Those cars would go 1 million miles no problem with straight highway driving.
I was in Miami taxi [CVPI] last month that had 360K miles on it...It was a former Miami-Dade patrol car for the first 100K miles...It was running great and the A/C nice and cold.
I've been in NYC taxi crown vics with 300k+ miles on them and the cab drivers either have the gas or brakes floored. A/C is always ice cold too.
Those cars would go 1 million miles no problem with straight highway driving.
I was in Miami taxi [CVPI] last month that had 360K miles on it...It was a former Miami-Dade patrol car for the first 100K miles...It was running great and the A/C nice and cold.
Quote:
For extreme engine life, does Checker Cab use any synthetic oils? No, not unless called for by the Owner’s Manual, i.e., rear gear lubricant on Ford CVPI. According to the automakers, the use of engine synthetic oil is permissible as long as the normal oil change interval is followed. With synthetics twice as expensive as petroleum oil, the same change interval eliminates most claimed advantages of synthetics.
For extreme engine life, does Checker Cab use any synthetic oils? No, not unless called for by the Owner’s Manual, i.e., rear gear lubricant on Ford CVPI. According to the automakers, the use of engine synthetic oil is permissible as long as the normal oil change interval is followed. With synthetics twice as expensive as petroleum oil, the same change interval eliminates most claimed advantages of synthetics.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
The Chrysler 4.7 and Ford Modular 4.6 are *very* similar in basic architecture.
Honestly, I see very little similar between the two other than displacement and both being SOHC. Timing chain setups are different, bed plate (4.7) versus individual main caps (4.6), 4.7 heads not interchangeable side to side (only Mods this is true of are the later 4Vs), combustion chambers are radically different, cam oiling is different, etc, etc...
The Chrysler 4.7 and Ford Modular 4.6 are *very* similar in basic architecture.
Honestly, I see very little similar between the two other than displacement and both being SOHC. Timing chain setups are different, bed plate (4.7) versus individual main caps (4.6), 4.7 heads not interchangeable side to side (only Mods this is true of are the later 4Vs), combustion chambers are radically different, cam oiling is different, etc, etc...
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