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#1659349 - 11/05/09 12:52 PM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: ABChop]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Alaska
The CJ4 has excellent soot dispersancy but CI4+ is almost as good. Of course you could also delete the EGR cooler, which is a major source of engine problems in the 6.0/6.4 series. However: I have read that some people think the EGR system in the 6.4 (NOT the 6.0) serves some beneficial functions - as sort of a wastegate in case the turbo wastegate fails, plus a few reports of mpg not improving or even getting worse with EGR deletion on the 6.4.
That said, EGR deletion can significantly increase oil life and decrease soot and acid buildup in the oil, and therefore decrease engine wear.
Without EGR, one could use CH4 oils for instance. Like the John Deere Plus 50 0W40, which has excellent characteristics for Alberta climate.
I am using a CF ACEA E4/E5 oil in my 2005 Unimog with EGR deleted.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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#1659802 - 11/05/09 07:23 PM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: m37charlie]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7959
Loc: Barberton,Ohio
you need to run a 5w40 syn(or similar) in the winter.

15w40 isnt good below about 10F

I'd probably get something like Rotella 5w40 its about 18-20$/gallon in US.
for the other 8 monthes you can run a 15w40 anything really.
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2015 Forester I-Premium 6MT


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#1660328 - 11/06/09 03:51 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: Rand]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5690
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Well, back to my original comments.

You'll be changing oil so often it won't matter what you put in there.

If warranty is a concern to you, run a CJ-4 rated oil, in 10w-30 year round. Change as often as you like.

Save your receipts; you'll be fine.
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#1660637 - 11/06/09 10:16 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: dnewton3]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Well, back to my original comments.

You'll be changing oil so often it won't matter what you put in there.

If warranty is a concern to you, run a CJ-4 rated oil, in 10w-30 year round. Change as often as you like.

Save your receipts; you'll be fine.


I beg to differ on viscosity choice. In most parts of Alberta it can get to -40. Block heaters don't heat oil pans. I'd pick Esso XD-3 0W40 or Delvac 1 (ESP/old type) 5W40 for winter use (or other 20078/81 5W40) and a Cummins 20078 or 20081 approved 15W40 for April through early October to save $$.
I think non-ESP Delvac 1 can be found in Canada, unlike here.
10W30 has a minimum MRV (pumpability) rating at -30 C., really not that cold by Alberta/Alaska standards.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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#1660678 - 11/06/09 10:54 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: m37charlie]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5690
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
My mistake for not clarifying.

I was referring to the original question, which was about CI-4 versus CJ-4. In that regard, it makes no differnce to the engine for such short OCIs; but it does to the warranty.

I still say 10w-30 year round would do well.
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#1660863 - 11/06/09 01:12 PM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: dnewton3]
ABChop Offline


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 13
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I'll stick with my original plan to run Amsoil 5w40 in the winter and Amsoil 15w40 in the summer....CJ-4 versions of both....$320 a year for oil changes won't break me :)

Thanks for all the comments....ive learned a few things.

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#1663159 - 11/08/09 11:37 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: ABChop]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1076
Loc: Kellogg, IA
After living in the Alaskan interior for a decade and currently in the upper Midwest of the U.S., I fail to understand why whether a 5w40 vs a 15w40 such an issue for cold weather. For this very reason, oil pan heater pads and inserts were made. An oil pan heater is darn cost effective and uses far less electricity than any block heater. After the engine warms up, there is no flow problem, in my experience, even at -70F. The oil is warm and flowing quite nicely. Once temps get down to or below 20F, I plug in the oil pan heater, block heater when it gets down below 10F. Though using a 15w40 syn blend now, I have used 15w40 dino oils in some pretty nasty climates for decades and never had any issues with cold flow problems. Heat will rise from the oil and into the block when using a oil pan heater, so plugging in the block heater is less necessary unless temps get down extreme. Diesel fuel related issues are more of a problem in cold temps than oil. Now.... a less than $100 oil pan heater and a cost effective oil, or no oil pan heater and a high priced boutique oil that will cost more over time. Not a tough decision. Even if I was using a high ticket oil, I would still use the oil pan heater. Best investment that can be made by any vehicle owner.
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Hey there, VA, what do ya say? How many vets did you kill today?

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#1663165 - 11/08/09 11:41 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: TiredTrucker]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Alaska
Umm....sometimes there's no electric outlet.
And sometimes a vehicle needs to be started with no warning.
Your thoughts are reasonable if changing a 45 qt oil capacity every 8 weeks/20K miles is the situation. But for "private" drivers with lots of cold starts relative to hours in nonelectrified locales, in Canada or Alaska, changing oil 1-3 times a year, 0/5W40 is a good choice for the winter.
BTW, Mobil has come out with a 0W40 version of ESP Delvac, at least for Canada (haven't checked if it's in Alaska).

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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#1663178 - 11/08/09 11:49 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: m37charlie]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1076
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Umm... why would you be off grid in extrem cold temps and leaving the engine shut off for extended periods of time? I would think you would start and warm up the engine periodically (every couple of hours), especially diesel, if no availability of electrical outlets. If you weren't starting the vehicle daily, there is always a use of portable generator to plug into a few hours before starting. The damage I have seen to gas and diesel engines that have nothing done to heat the engine or oil in extreme temps makes me wonder why anyone would waste good money on good engines just to abuse the engine on purpose. Oh well, I like getting over 1 million miles on my diesels. I prefer to keep more of my money. I'll leave the endurance tests to the OEM's and people with a rampant curiosity to see what can be done to destroy an engine. BTW, most of my experience was with smaller "private" vehicles. True, have a lot of experience with this in semi diesels, but my personal vehicles always got the same treatment. Kind of a what is good for the goose is good for the gander idea. Engines, no matter the size, are not exactly cheap items. Why put them thru more abuse than absolutely necessary? I am still trying to understand how your comment on oil change interval has anything to do with cold temp operating.
_________________________
Hey there, VA, what do ya say? How many vets did you kill today?

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#1663245 - 11/08/09 12:56 PM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: TiredTrucker]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Alaska
Why would you be off the grid? Some people drive to work and park in parking lots without plug-ins. They work for 8 hrs and can't go outside and sit in an idling truck for 15 min every 2 hrs.
Also, some people do outdoor activities in the winter far away from plug-ins.
Regarding OCI: a heavy duty trucker starts his/her truck cold once a day, usually in a place where there's a plug in. Because of the miles driven, oil needs to be changed often - like every 8 weeks. Because of YOUR comment re "boutique oils", I was agreeing that people who go thru 75 gal/year of lube oil and cold start only once a day, in an electrified location, are better off using 15W40.
Versus people who have to cold start in an unelectrified location (like a parking lot), and only need one oil pan worth of "boutique oil" per winter. Those people are better off with 0/5W40, at least in the winter.
I think it's inappropriate to castigate people for not hauling a generator to work every day so they can start their pickup or diesel car with 15W40 when it's -35 C. I agree fully that diesel engines are expensive and shouldn't be abused. Which is why 0/5W40 should be used in the winter in Alberta.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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#1663764 - 11/08/09 07:40 PM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: m37charlie]
tuckman Offline


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 397
Loc: Elk Point, Alberta
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Why would you be off the grid? Some people drive to work and park in parking lots without plug-ins. They work for 8 hrs and can't go outside and sit in an idling truck for 15 min every 2 hrs.
Also, some people do outdoor activities in the winter far away from plug-ins.
Regarding OCI: a heavy duty trucker starts his/her truck cold once a day, usually in a place where there's a plug in. Because of the miles driven, oil needs to be changed often - like every 8 weeks. Because of YOUR comment re "boutique oils", I was agreeing that people who go thru 75 gal/year of lube oil and cold start only once a day, in an electrified location, are better off using 15W40.
Versus people who have to cold start in an unelectrified location (like a parking lot), and only need one oil pan worth of "boutique oil" per winter. Those people are better off with 0/5W40, at least in the winter.
I think it's inappropriate to castigate people for not hauling a generator to work every day so they can start their pickup or diesel car with 15W40 when it's -35 C. I agree fully that diesel engines are expensive and shouldn't be abused. Which is why 0/5W40 should be used in the winter in Alberta.

Charlie


Thank you!

You said it better than I could have.
I had a post written but it had an extremely rude tone to it, so I wisely deleted it.
_________________________
05 Ford Excursion 6.0L, PSD Esso XD3 0w-30
92 Ford Exploder 4x4 4.0L, Esso XD3 0w-40
86 Toyota Truck 2wd 22RE(2.4L), Esso XD3 0W-40

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#1664138 - 11/09/09 05:24 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: tuckman]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4162
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
And since the dealer is making you change the oil twice a year regardless-run the 0W30 in the winter, change to 15W40 in the summer-if the 6.4 HEUI is HALF as bad at shearing oil as the 6.0 HEUI is, you won't want to extend OCIs anyway.
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#1664809 - 11/09/09 05:18 PM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: bullwinkle]
roadrunner1 Offline


Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 809
Loc: oh
the 6.4 is common rail
_________________________
'07 f350 6.0

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#1669045 - 11/12/09 09:30 PM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: roadrunner1]
slammds15 Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 185
Loc: Canada
CI-4 and CJ-4, the main emission difference besides others I know little about is CI-4 has less ash than CJ-4. Ash does not burn, it accumulates in the DPF.

High-pressure Piezo Common Rail (HPCR) System

The HPFP pumps fuel through separate tubes to each fuel rail. Each fuel rail has four fuel tubes, one for each injector, that maintain constant pressure from the high-pressure pump to each injector.

The injectors operate in five cycles; two pre-injection cycles, a main-injection cycle, a post-injection cycle, and a late post-injection cycle. The pre-injection cycles and post-injection cycle reduce combustion noise, mechanical load, and exhaust emissions. The main-injection cycle injects and atomizes fuel in the combustion chambers for combustion. The late post-injection cycle adds fuel to the exhaust to regenerate the aftertreatment system.

Each injector has an actuator that opens or closes the injector nozzle. Charging the actuator opens the nozzle. The nozzle is closed by discharging the actuator. The ECM charges and discharges each actuator by energizing the appropriate high side or low side output. The low side output supplies a return circuit for each actuator.
_________________________
-Red seal licensed
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-2012 F150 FX4 5.0L
-05 F250 Super Duty, tuned
-04 VW Jetta TDI with tuner
-86 Gm s-15 sbc'd

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#1669213 - 11/13/09 01:41 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: slammds15]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1143
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: slammds15
CI-4 and CJ-4, the main emission difference besides others I know little about is CI-4 has less ash than CJ-4.


Opposite is true, CJ4 is <1.0% ash, CI4 is typically 1.1-1.5% ash.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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