On my Honda they came with inner lip clip on and stick on weights inside the outer wheel. I have been told by a couple of tire stores that the best way to balance a tire is with clip on weights on the inner and outer lip. I was told that you want to have the weights farthest abart on the wheel for the best possible balance. He did mention that some wheels do not allow the use of clip on weights and they have no choice... but on mine with the OEM aluminum wheels they can be done either way. What are your thoughts on this????
Clip on or stick on wheel weights
- Thread starter rszappa1
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Clip-on weights do a better job of balancing the wheel, no question. But a risk with aluminum wheels is that clip-on weights on the outside rim will scratch the protective coating and leave permanent marks or corrosion pitting so that the next time the wheel is balanced and the weights are moved there will be visible marks left on the rim. Been there, done that, but I still prefer clip-on.
A lot of new crimp on weights are coated steel instead of lead, better for the environment and theoretically non-marking. OEs and WM use them. Mine are a light grey color that hides well.
I had aftermarket rims, cheesy 3rd world casting, that really could have used a 2-plane balance but only took sticky weights. Looks over function.
I had aftermarket rims, cheesy 3rd world casting, that really could have used a 2-plane balance but only took sticky weights. Looks over function.
you can 2 plane but you have to use stick on... I have a set of aluminum wheels (stock rx8) I had powdercoated and the performance shop used coated stick-ons the won't rust or corrode. Of course those wheels are +50 offset and 18x8... stock is +60 and 17x7.
see them in this picture:
(these were required sale pictures) (still for sale)
see them in this picture:
(these were required sale pictures) (still for sale)
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I want to try these balancing beads:
Balancing Beads
I can't wait to hear Bitogers call them a scam.
Balancing Beads
I can't wait to hear Bitogers call them a scam.
Originally Posted By: Hethaerto
I want to try these balancing beads:
Balancing Beads
I can't wait to hear Bitogers call them a scam.
They're a scam.
(I'm just saying it because you asked, I have no idea )
You get the best balance from having the weights as far to the outsides of the wheels as possible and the added weight should be in as small an area as possible. This can still be stick on, if they're right at the edge of the wheel. This is how many BMW wheels are balanced at the factory but they look a little funny.
There are a lot of nice weights out there. BMW dealers have awesome weights, but it's too bad most don't know how to operate their road force balancing machines well.
Their weights are all epoxy coated and come in many denominations. Stick-ons are no longer a strip of 1/4oz graduations, but a single square or rectangular weight of the called-for value with an arrow on it to line up the laser projection and a reasonably compact profile. They get thicker as the weight goes up because, in theory, your correction weight should be infinitely small to work properly and a huge strip of weights won't do the proper job.
Their clip ons are also epoxy coated and have stainless steel clips and they are "clip on" not "hammer on". Other than a bonehead tech, no marks are left behind when they are removed.
On summer wheels I'll often do clip on for the inside and "hidden" stick on for the outside unless they are a difficult balance. On my winter package I have gone to clip ons on the inside and outside but my winter alloys have a lip shape that is very well suited to clip ons on the outside.
If you wanted really sexy weights, a BMW dealer would be one place to get the work done.
My preferred independent tire shop has weights that are less sexy, but are still epoxy coated and they know how to operate their machines.
I want to try these balancing beads:
Balancing Beads
I can't wait to hear Bitogers call them a scam.
They're a scam.
(I'm just saying it because you asked, I have no idea
)You get the best balance from having the weights as far to the outsides of the wheels as possible and the added weight should be in as small an area as possible. This can still be stick on, if they're right at the edge of the wheel. This is how many BMW wheels are balanced at the factory but they look a little funny.
There are a lot of nice weights out there. BMW dealers have awesome weights, but it's too bad most don't know how to operate their road force balancing machines well.
Their weights are all epoxy coated and come in many denominations. Stick-ons are no longer a strip of 1/4oz graduations, but a single square or rectangular weight of the called-for value with an arrow on it to line up the laser projection and a reasonably compact profile. They get thicker as the weight goes up because, in theory, your correction weight should be infinitely small to work properly and a huge strip of weights won't do the proper job.
Their clip ons are also epoxy coated and have stainless steel clips and they are "clip on" not "hammer on". Other than a bonehead tech, no marks are left behind when they are removed.
On summer wheels I'll often do clip on for the inside and "hidden" stick on for the outside unless they are a difficult balance. On my winter package I have gone to clip ons on the inside and outside but my winter alloys have a lip shape that is very well suited to clip ons on the outside.
If you wanted really sexy weights, a BMW dealer would be one place to get the work done.
My preferred independent tire shop has weights that are less sexy, but are still epoxy coated and they know how to operate their machines.
I prefer the stick-on weights. The OE clip-on weights on our '07 Chrysler were the coated steel (nice). The generic replacement lead or steel clip-on weights that Sam's Club installed were not coated and marred the finish. At the next scheduled tire rotation, I had them do it so I could have them also re-balance with stick-ons only. No issues with balance.
I do believe the notion that you want the weights to the very outside if possible. It probably does take more weight to achieve the "same" balance with stick-ons vs. with clip-ons, since the moment arm is shorter. Doesn't bother me much, I love having smooth rim edges.
I do believe the notion that you want the weights to the very outside if possible. It probably does take more weight to achieve the "same" balance with stick-ons vs. with clip-ons, since the moment arm is shorter. Doesn't bother me much, I love having smooth rim edges.
I went with stick-on weights on the outside and clip on on the inside where you cannot see it.
When I get tires mounted or rebalanced, I tell them that I want a "static balance". They use the same clip on weights, but they only put them on the INSIDE bead. No weights are put on the outside bead, and no stick on weights are used at all.
Works just fine for me, and keeps my wheels looking very nice.
Works just fine for me, and keeps my wheels looking very nice.
Originally Posted By: Hethaerto
I want to try these balancing beads:
Balancing Beads
I can't wait to hear Bitogers call them a scam.
They're not a scam, but are unsuitable for smaller tire/wheel combinations. IMI is probably the market leader and they have discovered, as I did as a "guinea pig", that they just don't work as well in smaller set-ups. On heavy vehicles and in large tire/wheel combos they work quite well, as has been shown in the transport industry.
In a commercial truck, I use them without hesitation. But I'll never waste my time using them in a light-duty vehicle again. IMI had such a poor showing in field tests, and the limited use of the technology by customers, that they withdrew their product from the light-duty market. They instead spent a great deal of time and money to develop an alternative product to serve the light-duty market. It's real simple, would you spend a fortune doing this if you already had the solution?
I want to try these balancing beads:
Balancing Beads
I can't wait to hear Bitogers call them a scam.
They're not a scam, but are unsuitable for smaller tire/wheel combinations. IMI is probably the market leader and they have discovered, as I did as a "guinea pig", that they just don't work as well in smaller set-ups. On heavy vehicles and in large tire/wheel combos they work quite well, as has been shown in the transport industry.
In a commercial truck, I use them without hesitation. But I'll never waste my time using them in a light-duty vehicle again. IMI had such a poor showing in field tests, and the limited use of the technology by customers, that they withdrew their product from the light-duty market. They instead spent a great deal of time and money to develop an alternative product to serve the light-duty market. It's real simple, would you spend a fortune doing this if you already had the solution?
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
The last time I had a Hunter road force balance done, they used a single clip on weight only, on the inside lip of the wheel.
Using only one weight and having it always on the inside isn't a proper balance, IMO.
The Hunter (and other machines) can be set for single plane and dual plane. I've heard two stories:
1) there's a government "environmental" program underway to "reduce lead in landfill" and tire shops are setting their machines for single plane to reduce lead use.
2) lots of people don't know how to properly set up a complicated machine like the Hunter and they are unknowingly running in single plane mode thinking they're doing a bang up job.
If 1, I think a recycling program would be a lot more effective than having millions of improperly balanced tires on the road. I think it's B.S.
I believe #2 a lot more. I was balancing at my BMW dealer for a while but suddenly, one day, all my wheels kept coming back with a 1 weight on them even when I was simply checking the balance on a set of wheels that had inners and outers on all 4 when I brought them in. They played stupid - I stopped going there.
My most recent Hunter balance from an independent shop has a mix of 1 or 2 weights and the singles are sometimes inner, sometimes outer.
I've seen the screen on the Hunters, it shines a laser on the wheel on the inside and outside, and tells the operator where to place the inside weight and the outside weight. In the case of hidden stick-ons, the outside weight isn't actually going on the outside of the wheel so the final result may have vibration.
The last couple of cars I've had have had all-aluminum suspension. There's a low tolerance for road force or out of balance conditions with this set up since unsprung mass is minimized. I like my wheels as much as the next guy so I use hidden stick-ons on my summers but I won't put up with constant wheel vibration to avoid using stick on weights. Function before form.
The last time I had a Hunter road force balance done, they used a single clip on weight only, on the inside lip of the wheel.
Using only one weight and having it always on the inside isn't a proper balance, IMO.
The Hunter (and other machines) can be set for single plane and dual plane. I've heard two stories:
1) there's a government "environmental" program underway to "reduce lead in landfill" and tire shops are setting their machines for single plane to reduce lead use.
2) lots of people don't know how to properly set up a complicated machine like the Hunter and they are unknowingly running in single plane mode thinking they're doing a bang up job.
If 1, I think a recycling program would be a lot more effective than having millions of improperly balanced tires on the road. I think it's B.S.
I believe #2 a lot more. I was balancing at my BMW dealer for a while but suddenly, one day, all my wheels kept coming back with a 1 weight on them even when I was simply checking the balance on a set of wheels that had inners and outers on all 4 when I brought them in. They played stupid - I stopped going there.
My most recent Hunter balance from an independent shop has a mix of 1 or 2 weights and the singles are sometimes inner, sometimes outer.
I've seen the screen on the Hunters, it shines a laser on the wheel on the inside and outside, and tells the operator where to place the inside weight and the outside weight. In the case of hidden stick-ons, the outside weight isn't actually going on the outside of the wheel so the final result may have vibration.
The last couple of cars I've had have had all-aluminum suspension. There's a low tolerance for road force or out of balance conditions with this set up since unsprung mass is minimized. I like my wheels as much as the next guy so I use hidden stick-ons on my summers but I won't put up with constant wheel vibration to avoid using stick on weights. Function before form.
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The better Hunter machines do the awesome thing that is LFM (Lateral Force Measurement). They measure individual tire pull and tell you which corner to put that tire so the car pulls straight on the road. Genius.
Yeah, but you have to get them balanced every time you rotate the tires.
You don't HAVE to it just puts them at a better starting point. Just like people don't do that when they rotate tires now...
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Yeah, but you have to get them balanced every time you rotate the tires.
Some applications are more sensitive to factors like road force. Some people in some vehicles would never know the difference. To others, its essential.
My BMW E39 is sensitive because of tight all-aluminum suspension, and the natural resonance of the suspension and tire radius accentuates any shake in the 60-70mph range (ie. every long road trip you ever take). A pickup truck with recirc-ball steering and different suspension resonance may never know the difference between single-plane balancing at Joe's garage and a fancy-pants Hunter roadforce balance.
It all depends..... If the end result is the same in your application, why waste time and money?
Yeah, but you have to get them balanced every time you rotate the tires.
Some applications are more sensitive to factors like road force. Some people in some vehicles would never know the difference. To others, its essential.
My BMW E39 is sensitive because of tight all-aluminum suspension, and the natural resonance of the suspension and tire radius accentuates any shake in the 60-70mph range (ie. every long road trip you ever take). A pickup truck with recirc-ball steering and different suspension resonance may never know the difference between single-plane balancing at Joe's garage and a fancy-pants Hunter roadforce balance.
It all depends..... If the end result is the same in your application, why waste time and money?
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
The last time I had a Hunter road force balance done, they used a single clip on weight only, on the inside lip of the wheel.
Using only one weight and having it always on the inside isn't a proper balance, IMO.
The Hunter (and other machines) can be set for single plane and dual plane. I've heard two stories:
1) there's a government "environmental" program underway to "reduce lead in landfill" and tire shops are setting their machines for single plane to reduce lead use.
2) lots of people don't know how to properly set up a complicated machine like the Hunter and they are unknowingly running in single plane mode thinking they're doing a bang up job.
If 1, I think a recycling program would be a lot more effective than having millions of improperly balanced tires on the road. I think it's B.S.
I believe #2 a lot more. I was balancing at my BMW dealer for a while but suddenly, one day, all my wheels kept coming back with a 1 weight on them even when I was simply checking the balance on a set of wheels that had inners and outers on all 4 when I brought them in. They played stupid - I stopped going there.
My most recent Hunter balance from an independent shop has a mix of 1 or 2 weights and the singles are sometimes inner, sometimes outer.
I've seen the screen on the Hunters, it shines a laser on the wheel on the inside and outside, and tells the operator where to place the inside weight and the outside weight. In the case of hidden stick-ons, the outside weight isn't actually going on the outside of the wheel so the final result may have vibration.
The last couple of cars I've had have had all-aluminum suspension. There's a low tolerance for road force or out of balance conditions with this set up since unsprung mass is minimized. I like my wheels as much as the next guy so I use hidden stick-ons on my summers but I won't put up with constant wheel vibration to avoid using stick on weights. Function before form.
The single weight mode is what Hunter calls "SmartWeight® balancing technology".
"SmartWeight technology typically reduces “floor-to-floor” cycle time on more than 30% of wheels balanced by using a single wheel weight to achieve the best possible static and couple balance."
".............SmartWeight balancing uses the actual static and couple forces to directly address the source of vibration, resulting in the best possible balance."
http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/features/how-3.cfm
http://www.weightsaver.com/
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
The last time I had a Hunter road force balance done, they used a single clip on weight only, on the inside lip of the wheel.
Using only one weight and having it always on the inside isn't a proper balance, IMO.
The Hunter (and other machines) can be set for single plane and dual plane. I've heard two stories:
1) there's a government "environmental" program underway to "reduce lead in landfill" and tire shops are setting their machines for single plane to reduce lead use.
2) lots of people don't know how to properly set up a complicated machine like the Hunter and they are unknowingly running in single plane mode thinking they're doing a bang up job.
If 1, I think a recycling program would be a lot more effective than having millions of improperly balanced tires on the road. I think it's B.S.
I believe #2 a lot more. I was balancing at my BMW dealer for a while but suddenly, one day, all my wheels kept coming back with a 1 weight on them even when I was simply checking the balance on a set of wheels that had inners and outers on all 4 when I brought them in. They played stupid - I stopped going there.
My most recent Hunter balance from an independent shop has a mix of 1 or 2 weights and the singles are sometimes inner, sometimes outer.
I've seen the screen on the Hunters, it shines a laser on the wheel on the inside and outside, and tells the operator where to place the inside weight and the outside weight. In the case of hidden stick-ons, the outside weight isn't actually going on the outside of the wheel so the final result may have vibration.
The last couple of cars I've had have had all-aluminum suspension. There's a low tolerance for road force or out of balance conditions with this set up since unsprung mass is minimized. I like my wheels as much as the next guy so I use hidden stick-ons on my summers but I won't put up with constant wheel vibration to avoid using stick on weights. Function before form.
The single weight mode is what Hunter calls "SmartWeight® balancing technology".
"SmartWeight technology typically reduces “floor-to-floor” cycle time on more than 30% of wheels balanced by using a single wheel weight to achieve the best possible static and couple balance."
".............SmartWeight balancing uses the actual static and couple forces to directly address the source of vibration, resulting in the best possible balance."
http://www.gsp9700.com/pub/features/how-3.cfm
http://www.weightsaver.com/
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This is very informative, thank you.
I still see more weight and labour savings here than I see improvements in balancing performance.
Floor-to-floor time is cost saved for the shop.
I still see more weight and labour savings here than I see improvements in balancing performance.
Floor-to-floor time is cost saved for the shop.
Bingo.
Craig,
But that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most all tires balanced this way are just fine.
But that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most all tires balanced this way are just fine.
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