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#1654920 - 11/01/09 11:03 PM CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed??
ABChop Offline


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 13
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I have a 08 F350 with the Cat/DPF removed.........so I don't need to run CJ-4..........so is CI-4 a better oil to go with?? Or isn't their much difference??
Thanks.

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#1655060 - 11/02/09 05:58 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: ABChop]
Pablo Offline


Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 46553
Loc: Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
Originally Posted By: ABChop
I have a 08 F350 with the Cat/DPF removed.........so I don't need to run CJ-4..........so is CI-4 a better oil to go with?? Or isn't their much difference??
Thanks.


If you are not doing really extra long OCI's, I don't see a huge difference. The new CJ-4 oils appear to be well constructed. You may want to do a couple UOA's of both, just to see.

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#1655269 - 11/02/09 10:32 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: Pablo]
Rand Offline


Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 7218
Loc: Akron,Ohio
CJ-4 if you arent doing long drains, CI-4plus if you want to stretch out your drain intervals

CI-4plus has more TBN.


Note:the above is my opinion.


Edited by Rand (11/02/09 10:32 AM)
_________________________
2011 Subaru Forester X Prem. 5MT

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#1655300 - 11/02/09 11:05 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: Rand]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5539
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
No cat?
It won't make a difference.

The fuel is the main contributor of sulphur (the oil is to a lesser degree). Are you getting ULSD fuel up there in Alberta? If so, it won't make much of a difference.

If you're like most people, regardless of CJ-4 or CI-4+ or CI-4, you're going to change the oil long before it's used up anyway, so the point is moot.

I'd be more concerned about vis and pumpability up in Alberta. A lighter grade, or larger spread of VIIs is probably more important for your consideration.


Edited by dnewton3 (11/02/09 11:10 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#1655355 - 11/02/09 11:41 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: dnewton3]
ABChop Offline


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 13
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Thanks for the information.

Yes we do get ULSD here....it's all we can buy to my knowledge.

I won't be running it more than 5000km (3125 miles).

I have had oil analysis's run on my last 2 changes. There was Castrol 15w40 cj4 in it when i bought it, and i ran Amsoil cj4 new formula 5w40 last time.

I currently have Delo 400LE 5w40 in it.

I plan to post the oil analysis results as soon as i figure my scanner out :)

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#1656314 - 11/03/09 05:01 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: ABChop]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5539
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
5k km OCIs? Zowie, that's low. shocked

The debate of CJ-4 vs CI-4 is moot at such incredibly short runs, especically running ULSD fuel!

It's a bit difficult to know exactly the weather temps you'll incur year round; Alberta is a huge province, and it doesn't tell us that much to your location. But I'll presume extreme cold is much more of a concern than extreme heat. With that in mind, I would buy the least expensive dino HDEO in 10w-30 I could find, in your situation; run it year round. If you feel the need for better low-temp flow, consider the RTS in 5w-40; great performance and moderate cost. Also, I presume Esso and other brands exist up there that offer similar products. My point is that with such short OCIs, I'd pick the least expensive product that will meet your environmental concerns.

Regardless, you'll NEVER wear out ANY oil with such low intervals.





Edited by dnewton3 (11/03/09 05:07 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#1657166 - 11/03/09 08:03 PM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: dnewton3]
ABChop Offline


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 13
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Thanks for your comments.

I was planning on running 5w40 in the winter, and 15w40 in the summer.

In winter it can be -40C(-40F); to +35C(95F) in the summer. I'll be towing my 13000 lb 5th wheel in summer as well.

I'm not really to concerned about the cost of the oil to be honest, cheap insuarance....an oil change is costing me $130 to $160....with me doing it myself. I'll only do 2 to 3 changes a year. I think one of the local Ford dealerships is recommending 10w30 year around.


Edited by ABChop (11/03/09 08:09 PM)

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#1657249 - 11/03/09 08:55 PM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: ABChop]
D-Roc Offline


Registered: 11/23/05
Posts: 1525
Loc: CFB Petawawa, Ontario
If Ford in your area is recommending 10W30, my choice would Amsoil ACD 10W30/30.
_________________________
"Close your eyes
Look deep in your soul
Step outside yourself
And let your mind go"

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#1657523 - 11/04/09 05:16 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: D-Roc]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5539
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
So, in a year you're running perhaps 15k km (less than 10k miles), and possilby less?

Your initial question was about CI-4 vs CJ-4, but overall, I think the topic more prudent to discuss is your OCI plan.

Why not choose a quality product, and leave it in all year? You will be grossly under-utilizing the oil you choose if you don't.

My point is that 5k km OCIs with ANY product is a bit wasteful. Why are your oil changes costing so much? Because you're using synthetics. Most people are under the impression that using a top-end product, and changing it quite often, is somehow "better" than a "normal" oil changed under a "routine" OCI. But actually, the facts show otherwise. When used for "normal" OCI durations, there is little to no wear reduction when using premium products over conventional products. The UOAs are very telling in that manner. I can show you many UOAs that support this conclusion. And I would challenge anyone to show me a UOA that (excluding defective conditions) gives the return equal to the investment, under those parameters, for PAO products.
Here's my UOA from last month:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1628772#Post1628772
I ran 10w-30 Rotella year round. Get's below zero degF occasionally where I live. Get's near 100 degF in my summer towing conditions. How much "better" does anyone think an Amsoil product would have done? For my 6k miles (nearly 10k km) I got outstanding wear protection, and spent only $23 for the oil. The oil could have easily gone further, but I dump it once a year to comply with warranty conditions.

If you spend 4x the money for a "premium" product, do you get 4x less wear in "normal" OCIs? No, you do not. And I can't find one single UOA that suggests you would. Do you get 4x the OCI duration? Quite possible - but only if you make it last that far. So if you purposely limit yourself to shorter OCIs, and you don't get "better" wear protection, where's the logic to spending all the extra money?

I'm trying to help you, and others, understand that for "normal" OCIs, there is no realized benefit to using top-end costly products; it's a false assumption of "better". The facts show otherwise.

I'll concede to the fact that you see some really cold temps, and therefore a dino product might not be a great choice. My suggestion is to run a group III that doesnt' cost too much, and OCI once a year. My suspicion is that RTS or some other moderately-priced group III is available, and you could run it all year with no issues whatsoever. I know from D-Roc that there are plenty of good Canadian-based brand choices that would fill this niche as well.

The Delo 5w-40 you have in there right now is also an excellent product. You could cut your costs by utilizing it to the full extent for the whole year, and be confident in the protection it provides!


Edited by dnewton3 (11/04/09 05:37 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#1658646 - 11/04/09 09:21 PM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: dnewton3]
ABChop Offline


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 13
Loc: Alberta, Canada

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#1658862 - 11/05/09 01:47 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: D-Roc]
ABChop Offline


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 13
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Can't leave it in all year because of warranty. Because of the climate here we are supposed to change as per the following copied out of the manual. The warranty lady at the local dealership said it must be followed.

"Special Operating Conditions: 5,000 miles (8,000 km), 6 months or 200 hours of engine operation, see appropriate schedule."

Also supposed to use a CJ-4 oil, and keep all receipts for oil and filters, and document mileage at each oil change if doing the changes myself....which i am.


15 qts of Amsoil 5w40 costs me $130, plus a $30 filter.
4 gal of Chevron Delo400LE 5w40 cost $100 plus a $30 filter.


Edited by ABChop (11/05/09 01:48 AM)

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#1658903 - 11/05/09 04:53 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: ABChop]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5539
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
RTS (or similar product in your area) would likely cost $50 less than the Amsoil (filter prices being the same) per change. Two changes a year would save $100!

What "specifial operating conditions" do you incur?
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#1658923 - 11/05/09 05:46 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: dnewton3]
roadrunner1 Offline


Registered: 04/08/09
Posts: 776
Loc: oh
since op listed cat/dpf removed he obviously isn't concerned with warrenty, its void
_________________________
'07 f350 6.0

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#1659264 - 11/05/09 11:36 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: roadrunner1]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5539
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Well, sort of. There is no warranty for parts that are removed. But the warranty coverage of other remaining components can be valid, if the conditions are met. Removing the cat/dpf does not effect the lubricated engine internals, etc.
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#1659268 - 11/05/09 11:38 AM Re: CJ-4 or CI-4 in 08 F350 with Cat/DPF removed?? [Re: roadrunner1]
ABChop Offline


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 13
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted By: roadrunner1
since op listed cat/dpf removed he obviously isn't concerned with warrenty, its void


Warranty isn't void...worst case u just bolt the stock exhaust back on to get back to stock; and get any warranty work done. The dealerships are pretty good.....as long as it's not something directly related to the mod, they will honor the warranty. My truck has an air intake, Spartan tuner, and 5" turbo back exhaust. It is pushing about 525 hp and 1100 ft/lbs torque to the rear wheels. Plus I gained 8-10mpg on the hiway.

The chev and dodge dealers here are removing the dpf from new trucks before they even leave the dealerships. They are not needed in Canada by law, and it improves mileage immensely.

The "special conditions"...are our climate. Ford says because of the extremes seen in weather here, it falls under "special conditions". So in order to get warranty engine work you have to honor this. They seem much more worried about this than dpf/cat deleates or tuners. Which brings me full circle as to the point of this thread was to see if i should run CJ-4 or another oil such as CI-4....but i forgot about the warranty issue.....so i will have to run CJ-4. Plus I read that the CJ-4 oil is also formulated for EGR soot and particulate control .....so another reason the run it.

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