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#1655432 - 11/02/09 12:39 PM Antigel Temperature
Oldwolf Offline


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 993
Loc: Cary, NC
At what outdoor temperature should I use antigel in my diesel fuel?
_________________________
2005 Prius: Mobil 1 Blend (50%)0W20+(50%)0W40
2012 Prius C: Toyota 0W20

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#1656863 - 11/03/09 02:54 PM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
Dieseldoctor Offline


Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 306
Loc: tn usa
Depends if it's summer or winter most blend fuel to the conditions changes i think 40 degrees for untreated. I've always only done it if temps drop below 10 degrees i'm not far far your location hope that helps.

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#1665578 - 11/10/09 09:39 AM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Dieseldoctor]
Oldwolf Offline


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 993
Loc: Cary, NC
Hey. I am wondering at what temperatures should I start to add anti gel to my fuel here in North Carolina. The only concrete answer I have found so far is this:

Quote:

Diesel petroleum fuel will start to gel up around 10F. It starts to cloud at 32 degrees, which means it is starting to gel.


So cloudy diesel is OK? It won't gum up the works?
_________________________
2005 Prius: Mobil 1 Blend (50%)0W20+(50%)0W40
2012 Prius C: Toyota 0W20

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#1665584 - 11/10/09 09:44 AM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
Oldwolf Offline


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 993
Loc: Cary, NC
Another good read:

Quote:

POUR AND CLOUD POINT: Pour and cloud point should be tailored for your specific climate needs. The cloud point refers to the fuel's temperature as it begins to thicken and "cloud." The pour point refers to the temperature of the diesel fuel as it thickens and will no longer pour. Some engines will fail to run at the cloud point, but all engines will fail at the pour point. Usually the cloud and pour point are 20 degrees apart. Normal cloud point often occurs at 40 F and pour point at 15-20 F with DF2 fuel. If you are in a cold climate, use winterized fuel or winter blended diesel fuel, which is a mixture of DF1 and DF2. DF1 has a lower pour point, but also has a lower viscosity, or weight, and is harder on the fuel injectors, which is why blended mixture is recommended for cooler climates.


http://www.itow.org/fuelguide.htm
_________________________
2005 Prius: Mobil 1 Blend (50%)0W20+(50%)0W40
2012 Prius C: Toyota 0W20

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#1676955 - 11/18/09 10:45 PM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1134
Loc: Alaska
It totally varies according to what is been sold at the pumps. In Alaska fuel is sometimes sold that stays usable down to -47 to -50 C.! Living in Anchorage I have never had a problem (except once, when I went to a low volume station owned by some unscrupulous people from another certain country) at temps down to -30 F. (-35 C.)
On the other hand I did have a stoppage at Christmas 1975 running Mexican diesel at ~+10 F.
Diesel fuel comes in many mixes and specifications with cloud points ranging from +40 F. to -58 F. (Jet A50).

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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#1682916 - 11/24/09 09:23 AM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: m37charlie]
salesrep Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 3339
Loc: lllinois
To answer your question. Today.
Get one with a moisture dispersant and some detergents as well.
It is just good practice in the Fall to try to eliminate excess moisture from today's fuel before winter to prevent filter freezing and get some anti-gel rolling should you catch a poor batch of fuel.
_________________________
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government."

Edward Abbey


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#1683019 - 11/24/09 10:57 AM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: salesrep]
Oldwolf Offline


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 993
Loc: Cary, NC
But...when the temperature hits 32F, the cloud point, I should add AntiGel...I think.
_________________________
2005 Prius: Mobil 1 Blend (50%)0W20+(50%)0W40
2012 Prius C: Toyota 0W20

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#1686062 - 11/26/09 11:56 PM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1134
Loc: Alaska
Originally Posted By: Oldwolf
But...when the temperature hits 32F, the cloud point, I should add AntiGel...I think.


It still depends. If you are in New England or Montana or Alaska or Canada and it hits +32F., no worries. In Mexico, big worries. Because of the qualities of the fuel being delivered.
In China they sell vehicle diesel fuels with cloud points from +5C. down to -30C.
You haven't said what vehicle you have.
If you have a heated filter/separator, it adds ~15 deg.F to the fuel.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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#2091857 - 12/01/10 08:19 AM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: salesrep]
Oldwolf Offline


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 993
Loc: Cary, NC
Originally Posted By: salesrep
To answer your question. Today.
Get one with a moisture dispersant and some detergents as well.
It is just good practice in the Fall to try to eliminate excess moisture from today's fuel before winter to prevent filter freezing and get some anti-gel rolling should you catch a poor batch of fuel.


What do you consider to be a good additive?

Currently I use 6 oz Diesel Kleen and 6 oz TCW3 two stroke oil per 18 gal fill up.

Is this an overkill, is there a better additive to use?
_________________________
2005 Prius: Mobil 1 Blend (50%)0W20+(50%)0W40
2012 Prius C: Toyota 0W20

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#2092216 - 12/01/10 02:48 PM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
salesrep Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 3339
Loc: lllinois
Originally Posted By: Oldwolf
Originally Posted By: salesrep
To answer your question. Today.
Get one with a moisture dispersant and some detergents as well.
It is just good practice in the Fall to try to eliminate excess moisture from today's fuel before winter to prevent filter freezing and get some anti-gel rolling should you catch a poor batch of fuel.


What do you consider to be a good additive?

Currently I use 6 oz Diesel Kleen and 6 oz TCW3 two stroke oil per 18 gal fill up.

Is this an overkill, is there a better additive to use?


The 6 oz. of 2 stroke is likely a little on the high side.
I think a guy should use a treatment specifically designed to go into the fuel system.
Schaeffers Diesel Treat 2000 Premium Fuel treatments are top of the line. Of course there are others.
_________________________
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government."

Edward Abbey


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#2092913 - 12/02/10 08:25 AM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: salesrep]
Oldwolf Offline


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 993
Loc: Cary, NC
Where do you buy Schaeffer products?
_________________________
2005 Prius: Mobil 1 Blend (50%)0W20+(50%)0W40
2012 Prius C: Toyota 0W20

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#2092957 - 12/02/10 09:02 AM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
salesrep Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 3339
Loc: lllinois
You can go to Schaeffer oil's website and search for a retailer near you. Larger users can ...
_________________________
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government."

Edward Abbey


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#2093082 - 12/02/10 11:06 AM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
Oldwolf Offline


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 993
Loc: Cary, NC
Nearest one is 87 miles away!
_________________________
2005 Prius: Mobil 1 Blend (50%)0W20+(50%)0W40
2012 Prius C: Toyota 0W20

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#2093406 - 12/02/10 03:51 PM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
BobFout Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 2682
Loc: Indiana
Oldwolf,

I agree with Salesrep, the time to start using winter additives is in the fall, before it starts getting cold.

Any of the name-brand winter formula additives should do you well:

  • Power Service (white bottle)
  • Stanadyne (all-season)
  • Amsoil (cold flow improver and cetane boost)
  • Schaeffer (winter version of DT2000)
  • Redline (winter version)
_________________________
2003 VW Jetta TDI, tons o' mods with turbo upgrade. Red Line 0w40.
Amsoil * Mobil 1 * Redline * Royal Purple * Castrol * Shell

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#2111166 - 12/19/10 08:13 PM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: BobFout]
BobFout Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 2682
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Oldwolf,

I agree with Salesrep, the time to start using winter additives is in the fall, before it starts getting cold.

Any of the name-brand winter formula additives should do you well:

  • Power Service (white bottle)
  • Stanadyne (all-season)
  • Amsoil (cold flow improver and cetane boost)
  • Schaeffer (winter version of DT2000)
  • Redline (winter version)



Hm, I left off Howes Diesel Treat off the list.
_________________________
2003 VW Jetta TDI, tons o' mods with turbo upgrade. Red Line 0w40.
Amsoil * Mobil 1 * Redline * Royal Purple * Castrol * Shell

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#2122734 - 12/31/10 01:12 PM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4088
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Keep a bottle of Diesel 911 around as well, good stuff for drying out watery fuel. If your '93 is like my '82 300D, there is no heater on the fuel filter. I also try to keep all diesel tanks as full as possible, especially in winter, to cut down on condensation. Mac's Antigel is also available at NAPA, I have a gallon in the basement that I got on sale, fortunately haven't had to use it!
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#2122738 - 12/31/10 01:18 PM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
Points Offline


Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 46
Loc: MN
I had a VW jetta TDI for many years and I used a qt of e85 gas when the temps are below -10 here in mn.
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____________________

Chief Justice John Roberts: "A handgun is the best protection that a citizen can have for protection inside the home"

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#2123175 - 12/31/10 08:08 PM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Points]
BobFout Offline


Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 2682
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: Points
I had a VW jetta TDI for many years and I used a qt of e85 gas when the temps are below -10 here in mn.


Gas in a TDI (or any modern diesel)? crzy

Gas in old diesels can be OK per the manual, but never in a modern diesel.
_________________________
2003 VW Jetta TDI, tons o' mods with turbo upgrade. Red Line 0w40.
Amsoil * Mobil 1 * Redline * Royal Purple * Castrol * Shell

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#2127979 - 01/05/11 08:25 AM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: bullwinkle]
Oldwolf Offline


Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 993
Loc: Cary, NC
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
If your '93 is like my '82 300D, there is no heater on the fuel filter. I also try to keep all diesel tanks as full as possible, especially in winter, to cut down on condensation.


I do have a fuel heater on my engine that is thermostatically controlled. At any rate, I am now adding 6 oz. of Diesel Kleen Anti Gel at every fill up. The winter here has been pretty mild so far though.

I usually fill up at about a quarter tank. I hear you about keeping the tank "fuller" to minimize condensation.
_________________________
2005 Prius: Mobil 1 Blend (50%)0W20+(50%)0W40
2012 Prius C: Toyota 0W20

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#2128057 - 01/05/11 09:44 AM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
scurvy Offline


Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 2274
Loc: Chicago IL USA
Originally Posted By: Oldwolf
At what outdoor temperature should I use antigel in my diesel fuel?


That greatly depends on the quality of fuel you buy.

I keep a mason jar of untreated-by-me fuel from my local supplier of B11 in my unheated, uninsulated garage. It has remained bright, clear & completely liquid even at -28C [-17F]. I still tend to dose my fuel with Howes Diesel Treat or PS White once temps start straying down to -15C [low single digits F]. Never had a gelling problem or iced up fuel filter.

Especially with modern diesels, buying the highest quality fuel you can find is one key to long-term value.
_________________________
You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

06 VW Golf TDI - M1/Delvac 1300 7.5w40ish, HU726/2x, EaBP90
12 Mazda 5 - M1 0W20, FL910S

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#2355664 - 08/23/11 07:51 PM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
2cool Offline


Registered: 07/13/11
Posts: 439
Loc: Delaware
I use Howe's Diesel Treat. I can get it in all of the chain auto stores or any travel plaza serving trucks. I also use it in my heating oil, and my heating tech comments on how clean the system is at each annual service.

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#2785163 - 10/27/12 08:53 AM Re: Antigel Temperature [Re: Oldwolf]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1006
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Gelling is only one problem. Icing is another. You need to have an additive that tackles both. There is almost always traces of water in diesel. Usually not a problem. But when it is, it is a big one. I go thru around 21,000 gallons of diesel a year, so I can't afford to run into problems. But I am prepared. Over the years, I have grown fond of the Amsoil line of diesel fuel additives. Their Cold Flow Improver is pretty good. Recently, the son of a friend approached me about XLP Diesel Fuel additive. I dug around looking at specs for it online, and it is pretty close to the Amsoil stuff. It is made by an outfit in Olathe, KS under contract from Chevron for, if you can believe this, Amway! Price at application rate seems reasonable... 2/3 the cost of Amsoil line. I am going to be a guinea pig and test this stuff all this winter.

Since having my semi truck operational with low problems is critical in winter, I start putting additive in when we approach 32F. I get fuel from a variety of locations around the upper midwest, and even the top name outlets have occasionally had a load of fuel that didn't hold up well in cold temps. I don't play games and take chances. A gel up or other problem 700 miles from the house is not a good thing. I always carry spare fuel filters and additives.
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