Hydraulic/Trans Fluids Revisited
- Thread starter Jim Allen
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MolaKule
Staff member
I agree with Bruce, I would have to give the nod to Chevron. While Schaeffer's makes good use of moly as FM and AW, and uses PAO's to reduce pour point, etc, the Chevron Base II and III fluids along with the KB and 913 adds, give better anti-wear and thermal stability performance.
You asked which is better I told you.
Dont like answer tell schafers to upgrade product.
Basic answer:
ASTM D-943 oxidation test Hours to a TAN of 2.0
GPI at most 3,000 hours
GPII,GIII,PAO >10,000 Hours
Unless the Schaefer stuff has 99% pao then on base stock alone Chevron wins.
Once again excellent imformation from BRUCE381
Back to a cost comparative model for Jimallen.
Which of the following would be the most cost effective fluid for a newer Jd, CAse , New Holland, etc Tractor or Combine, hat Farmer A wanted to keep for 20 years?
A 5 gal pail of non-minumum spec that reads well but has know certifications for $17.99.
A 5 gal. pail of Min Spec Harvest King for $26.
A 5 gal. pail of Min Spec Oem oil for $34
A 5 gal. Pail of Chevron thc for $45
Which of the following would be the most cost effective fluid for a newer Jd, CAse , New Holland, etc Tractor or Combine, hat Farmer A wanted to keep for 20 years?
A 5 gal pail of non-minumum spec that reads well but has know certifications for $17.99.
A 5 gal. pail of Min Spec Harvest King for $26.
A 5 gal. pail of Min Spec Oem oil for $34
A 5 gal. Pail of Chevron thc for $45
If the oil meets the spec of tractor Id use the 17.99 stuff and do UOA's every season on it.
I sometime like to change more offen, then any dirt, water, debris will get dumped then try to run 5X that interval I like clean oil. If brake chatter was/becomes a problem Id use chevron. UOA's will validate the oil quality and set a drain interval also.
Bruce
I sometime like to change more offen, then any dirt, water, debris will get dumped then try to run 5X that interval I like clean oil. If brake chatter was/becomes a problem Id use chevron. UOA's will validate the oil quality and set a drain interval also.
Bruce
Can't go along with you bruce381. If I gotta a tractor or combine worth several thousand dollars that I need to work and work hard in a short time frame with the likelyhood of 90 and up ambient temperatures. My income /yearly income depends on the performance and reliabilty of the machine. Plus I would like it to last several years. Can't see running min spec oil ( which is from their data,and does not necessarily meet min spec from the pail, seen too many corners cut).
I said if it meets the spec and you said certifed May have miss understood what you said or are asking.
I also said " UOA's will validate the oil quality and set a drain interval also."
bruce
I also said " UOA's will validate the oil quality and set a drain interval also."
bruce
On who makes them, if someone has the base program of UPC codes, you should be able to look it up with the upc code on the package. There was once a site on the internet where you could do it, but i haven't seen it in a while.
But once you find it, that doesn't really tell you what specs were used. Blenders use the package the customer wants. The plant that makes what I sell has 3 basic products: A group II with the Oronite package that I use, a group I product with Oronite, and a group I product with something else.
I have analized a half dozen or so (results on my site) mainly trying to figure out why clutches and gears last so much longer with some products than with others. There are huge differences in additive levels, and in general, those with the most show the best results.
Some say they meet certain standards, but don't. But the best way you can get an idea is to talk to someone who has used a given product a long time. Many of my new customers are from word of mouth.
Next best thing is to read what Tractor standards the product meets and compare them. Some spec sheets will tell you they "pass". Some will tell you they pass with "X"% less wear than permitted. My general rule is that if it doesn't say much, there isn't much to say.
But once you find it, that doesn't really tell you what specs were used. Blenders use the package the customer wants. The plant that makes what I sell has 3 basic products: A group II with the Oronite package that I use, a group I product with Oronite, and a group I product with something else.
I have analized a half dozen or so (results on my site) mainly trying to figure out why clutches and gears last so much longer with some products than with others. There are huge differences in additive levels, and in general, those with the most show the best results.
Some say they meet certain standards, but don't. But the best way you can get an idea is to talk to someone who has used a given product a long time. Many of my new customers are from word of mouth.
Next best thing is to read what Tractor standards the product meets and compare them. Some spec sheets will tell you they "pass". Some will tell you they pass with "X"% less wear than permitted. My general rule is that if it doesn't say much, there isn't much to say.
I just joined this group to learn more about auto & motorcycle oils when I saw this forum.
I retired from a class I railroad that had 2200 industrial machines, used to install ties & rail on the railroad mostly with 2000 to 5000 PSI systems, in 21 states east of the Mississippi. Originally, the railroad that covered mostly southern states used Rando 68 hydraulic oil without cold start pump cavation problems. When the merger happened, the idea was to use Rando 46 in the northern states and to use Rando 68 in the southern states. With a company this large, soon the southern machines were up north working in much colder climates. We started to see cold start cavatation pump failures during the winter in the northern states. Most of the pumps used were vickers, rexroth, and sundstrand in the 15 to 60 gpm range. We became very pro active preventing hydraulic system problems. We changed the majority of machines to Dextron III hydraulic oil and moved to high quality 3 micron pressure filters to prevent contamination going downstream when you loose a pump. We also moved to 3 micron return tank filters with only case drains not being filtered back to tank. Our hydraulic warranty claims for items rebuilt internally decreased over 50%. I just wanted to mention how we used Dextron III oil.
Best Regards,
I retired from a class I railroad that had 2200 industrial machines, used to install ties & rail on the railroad mostly with 2000 to 5000 PSI systems, in 21 states east of the Mississippi. Originally, the railroad that covered mostly southern states used Rando 68 hydraulic oil without cold start pump cavation problems. When the merger happened, the idea was to use Rando 46 in the northern states and to use Rando 68 in the southern states. With a company this large, soon the southern machines were up north working in much colder climates. We started to see cold start cavatation pump failures during the winter in the northern states. Most of the pumps used were vickers, rexroth, and sundstrand in the 15 to 60 gpm range. We became very pro active preventing hydraulic system problems. We changed the majority of machines to Dextron III hydraulic oil and moved to high quality 3 micron pressure filters to prevent contamination going downstream when you loose a pump. We also moved to 3 micron return tank filters with only case drains not being filtered back to tank. Our hydraulic warranty claims for items rebuilt internally decreased over 50%. I just wanted to mention how we used Dextron III oil.
Best Regards,
Originally Posted By: Strjock81
Can anyone throw in where Amsoil might fit in against Chevron/Schaeffer's?
Old thread i know but where can one get Chevron? i need some good UTF oil that meets FORD's 134D spec.
Can anyone throw in where Amsoil might fit in against Chevron/Schaeffer's?
Old thread i know but where can one get Chevron? i need some good UTF oil that meets FORD's 134D spec.
Interesting thread. I'd like to add some points, however.
Considerations for hydraulic oil quality and standards are different than that of motor oil. The quality of the oil isn't as important as the conditioning of the oil. Higher quality filtration is required, and you will see longer life out of hydraulic equipment from switching from cheap 10 micron nominal filtration to 3 micron absolute filtration, than you will out of just choosing better oil.
It's a case where better oil will let you get by with a poorly designed hydraulic system longer than cheap oil. Hydraulic oil isn't supposed to get very hot, and systems aren't designed to run well when the oil is cold (which is why heaters and coolers are important). Actually, a properly designed hydraulic system shouldn't require a heater at all, but oil heaters may be required in some instances (or a heating circuit).
Also, monitoring of the hydraulic oil is important. There are electronic particle counters, temperature transducers, water saturation transducers, TAN and viscosity sensors. If you can monitor your oil effectively, it quite literally will never have to be changed (although additives can still be...uh...added)
Considerations for hydraulic oil quality and standards are different than that of motor oil. The quality of the oil isn't as important as the conditioning of the oil. Higher quality filtration is required, and you will see longer life out of hydraulic equipment from switching from cheap 10 micron nominal filtration to 3 micron absolute filtration, than you will out of just choosing better oil.
It's a case where better oil will let you get by with a poorly designed hydraulic system longer than cheap oil. Hydraulic oil isn't supposed to get very hot, and systems aren't designed to run well when the oil is cold (which is why heaters and coolers are important). Actually, a properly designed hydraulic system shouldn't require a heater at all, but oil heaters may be required in some instances (or a heating circuit).
Also, monitoring of the hydraulic oil is important. There are electronic particle counters, temperature transducers, water saturation transducers, TAN and viscosity sensors. If you can monitor your oil effectively, it quite literally will never have to be changed (although additives can still be...uh...added)
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