2003 Nissan Altima 3.5 Valve Noise at Startup

[ClemsonScout]

I've searched and read all related threads but didn't find exactly what I was looking for.

Bought the car with 60K on the odometer, now has 110K, 3.5SE V-6 Auto. I've run Mobil 1 5W-30 since 60K with about 5K OCIs.

The car burns about 1/2 quart or so of oil every 1500 miles. Its always burned oil, but it has increased with mileage. On start up (only have sitting over night)the valves click fairly loudly until the oil reaches the cams.

I'm looking for an oil to mainly help with the valve noise, but I also hope to decrease the oil consumption.

My question. Should I swap to a heavier weight oil 10W-30 or 10W-40 synthetic or should I go to a dino oil in the 5W-30 weight (or even 10W-30/40)?

Thanks in advance,

Robby

 

[tig1]

Sounds as though your engine has mechanicl issues. Check the PVC system and if it's OK I would switch to a 10-40 dino. Thick and cheap.

 

[mechtech2]

The required oils are counter productive.
A thin oil wold help the start up vale noise, and a thick oil would help oil burning.

 

[Familyguy]

What oil filter are you using? One without an anti-drainback valve or with a leaky one can contribute to low oil pressure on a cold start for a few seconds. On some engines, that can cause a real racket until the lifters pump up.

 

[BuickGN]

How long does it make this noise before going away?

 

[ClemsonScout]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
How long does it make this noise before going away?


It probably takes 1-2 seconds.

Originally Posted By: tig1
Sounds as though your engine has mechanicl issues. Check the PVC system and if it's OK I would switch to a 10-40 dino. Thick and cheap.


The PVC system is in good shape. I was leaning towards dino oil.

Originally Posted By: Familyguy
What oil filter are you using? One without an anti-drainback valve or with a leaky one can contribute to low oil pressure on a cold start for a few seconds. On some engines, that can cause a real racket until the lifters pump up.



Thats a good point. I was using Purolater Pureones for a while and it was a quiet, I think a [censored] Fram is on there now. I think I have a high end Fram on the shelf. What filters have good anti drain back?

 

[Familyguy]

Not sure about the bleeping Frams, but I have had good results with Napa Gold (which are repackaged Wix filters). They're reasonably cheap ($6 for my application) and available at any Napa parts store. The Purolater pureone is also a good filter in this regard.

I suspect this is your issue based on the "it goes away after a few seconds" comment.

Best,

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

This is a known and common quirk of the VQ35. My one does it as well. If you go to maxima.org, you will find many of the people on there have this issue. It's suppose to be harmless. Has something to do with the timing chain.

 

[PT1]

I would try maxlife 5w30 synthetic blend and a wix oil filter. You can find the maxlife at Walmart. Wix is sold at Napa or at www.fleetfilter.com

 

[VK56VD]

I have had two vehicles with the VQ engine myself and another one we have in the family and this is a common noise.

Use a Purolator filter or another brand instead of the Fram. Even the top of the line, Fram Extended Guard filters will cause this noise in this engine if the car has been sitting for a few days in the cold.

M1 oil causes these engines to work a bit louder. Try Pennzoil Platinum on your next change. It may even slow your consumption.

 

[Nayov]

I have a VQ also and found that 0-30 all but eliminated the noise.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: ClemsonScout
I've searched and read all related threads but didn't find exactly what I was looking for.

Bought the car with 60K on the odometer, now has 110K, 3.5SE V-6 Auto. I've run Mobil 1 5W-30 since 60K with about 5K OCIs.

The car burns about 1/2 quart or so of oil every 1500 miles. Its always burned oil, but it has increased with mileage. On start up (only have sitting over night)the valves click fairly loudly until the oil reaches the cams.

I'm looking for an oil to mainly help with the valve noise, but I also hope to decrease the oil consumption.

My question. Should I swap to a heavier weight oil 10W-30 or 10W-40 synthetic or should I go to a dino oil in the 5W-30 weight (or even 10W-30/40)?

Thanks in advance,

Robby




Hi Robby,

As others have stated, this noise is very common on VQ engines. My 2005 Altima makes this noise on most start-ups as well. The timing chain tensioners on this car are hydraulic, and thus they require sufficient oil pressure in order to prevent the chain from flapping around. So for the first few seconds, you will hear one (or more) of the 3 timing chains flapping around. As long as this noise does not last for more than a second or so, you're fine. If the noise continues after a cold start-up, then you need to replace your timing chain tensioners (a costly and involved procedure).

You will need a good syn oil with a wide spread (such as 0W30 or 0W40) to reduce the time that the chain tensioners require to press against the chains. Also, even more importantly, you need a high quality oil filter with a good anti-drainback valve. Do not use a 10W30 or 10W40, as these grades will make the noise last longer at start-up (but they will not harm a thing otherwise).

My recommendation would be to use something like Mobil 1 0W40 or GC 0W30 (any good syn in 0W30 or 0W40).

 

[Kaboomba]

Do you get a puff of smoke out the tailpipe on startup (valve guides, stem seals? Do you lose more oil during highway driving (indicating blowby) or city driving (seal problems)?

I agree the filter is a part of your problem. Frams are not known for their ainti-drainback valves or filter area (meaning that, over time, the pressure drop across the filter will increase faster as compared to other filters)--and both of these things directly contribute to noise on startup in any vehicle.

Also, at 110K you have some wear of lifters, rockers, and cams. Clearences have increased, hence more "slap" noise while waiting for a proper oil film on startup.

My Buick currently has a condition similar to your Nissan, and after much thought I believe the overall best solution is to use synthetic oil & filter (maybe switch to 0W-30 as mentioned above), plus a pre-oiler of some kind (if you are really serious, this is the only surefire way to fix this forever).

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: il_signore97

As others have stated, this noise is very common on VQ engines. My 2005 Altima makes this noise on most start-ups as well. The timing chain tensioners on this car are hydraulic, and thus they require sufficient oil pressure in order to prevent the chain from flapping around.


Just curious - are they purely oil pressure or oil plus spring? If the latter, a new spring may stop the problem at startup since there will be enough tension from the spring to stop outright "flapping" until the oil pressure brings it right up to spec.

In my BMW M52 application this technique is used, but sometimes the springs can get tired after a while too. They're also pretty easy to replace (come out via socket from the side of the block in some cases). No idea about the VQ35.

 

[BuickGN]

I had no idea these engines were supposed to make noise at startup. The girlfriend's Murano makes no abnormal noises on startup and that's surprising considering the rpms instantly shoot up to 1,900 and come back down. It's had Amsoil ACD SAE30 in it since it's first oil change.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: Spartuss
I have had two vehicles with the VQ engine myself and another one we have in the family and this is a common noise.

My 03 2.5SL Altima also make the noise. The research I've done on several Nissan sites shows with the 2.5, it's likely the timing chain. Filter brand makes no difference and I've always run 5w30. Doesn't happen in the summer just winter, before engine reaches operating temp. It's most noticeable on acceleration when the engine is cold, after it reaches operating temp, noise is gone. I suspect it has to do with the oil being 'thicker' before the engine reaches operating temp. I just let it warm up a little in winter, and accelerate easy at the start.

But with ~70K, and 5k OCI's, I've had no oil consumption issues with the 2.5L since new.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: il_signore97

As others have stated, this noise is very common on VQ engines. My 2005 Altima makes this noise on most start-ups as well. The timing chain tensioners on this car are hydraulic, and thus they require sufficient oil pressure in order to prevent the chain from flapping around.


Just curious - are they purely oil pressure or oil plus spring? If the latter, a new spring may stop the problem at startup since there will be enough tension from the spring to stop outright "flapping" until the oil pressure brings it right up to spec.

In my BMW M52 application this technique is used, but sometimes the springs can get tired after a while too. They're also pretty easy to replace (come out via socket from the side of the block in some cases). No idea about the VQ35.






I'm not sure if they include a spring or not. I'd have to have a look in the service manual. But in any case, they are so difficult to do, that once you have them out, you will most definitely want to change everything in sight. Most people that have to open the timing case on a FWD VQ will always replace all 3 chain tensioners, guides, the 2 secondary chains, the water pump, seals, and remove oil screens that can eventually clog up and starve the tensioners of immediate oil pressure.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
I had no idea these engines were supposed to make noise at startup. The girlfriend's Murano makes no abnormal noises on startup and that's surprising considering the rpms instantly shoot up to 1,900 and come back down. It's had Amsoil ACD SAE30 in it since it's first oil change.



The noise isn't always apparent, and some VQ's are quieter than others. Mine doesn't do it on all start-ups, just some, and I have nearly 100,000 miles now. But what I've noticed is that the noise does get worse with time, as the chain guides wear a bit and have to travel a bit farther inward to properly tension the chains.

Also, your g/f's Murano has a Japan-made VQ (only the Murano and 350Z have Japanese VQ's in Nissan's lineup). The Japanese VQ's use a different supplier for their chain tensioners, and have proven to be more durable than the tensioners in American VQ's. There were a few TSB's released about certain 2004-2006 model American VQ's regarding secondary timing chains that were too sharp and will prematurely wear the secondary chain tensioners. The tensioner itself was also upgraded to be more like the Japanese one and is a retrofit to all models (if/when needed).

I'm running 0W40 now and I'm keeping my fingers securely crossed in hopes that I will never have to open the timing case. The service manual states to remove the engine in order to properly do the job. I know a person that did it in his driveway. He said it took him 3 weeks of fiddling around during every bit of his free time, 500 bucks in parts, and a piece of his soul to get it done without taking the engine out

 

[nfs480]

It's the filter, my Honda did this with a standard cheap Napa filter but doesn't with the Purolator Pureones, it's the anti-drainback valve.

 

[il_signore97]

^Read the posts above. The timing chain tensioners are the cause of the noise.