Code:
Honda Red RLI
Genuine Line Bio-Syn
0W20 0W20 0W20
WEAR METALS:
Iron………………………. 1 2 1
Copper……………….. 0 0 0
Tin………………….……. 6 8 0
Lead…………………….. 0 0 1
Chromium……………. 0 0 0
Nickel…………………. 0 0 0
Aluminum………….. 1 2 0
Titanium……………. 0 0 0
Silver……………….. 0 0 0
ADDITIVE METALS:
Calcium….…………. 1545 2213 1893
Magnesium…….…. 8 14 10
Zinc…..………………. 833 1565 1041
Phosphorous……. 831 1219 769
Barium……...……… 4 2 0
Molybdenum………. 1065 1290 0
Antimony………….. 0 0 206
CONTAMINANT METALS:
Silicon…………….… 3 33 1
Sodium……..………… 3 34 10
Boron……….……….. 63 19 13
Potassium…………. 0 0 0
Vanadium………….. 0 0 0
PHYSICAL AND OTHER:
Viscosity 40°C 40.4 43.4 43.5
Viscosity 100°C 8.7 8.3 8.4
Viscosity Index 203 171 174
Flash(CCCFP)°F 410 395 410
TAN…………...………… 1.40 2.12 0.61
TBN……..…………….. 5.2 6.8 6.3
Oxidation…………. 16 158 152
Nitration…………… 4 7 6
Water by KF……. 1226 1676 1553
Fuel……..………….. 0.07 0 0
Soot………..……….. 0 0 0
Glycol……...….. 0.12 0 0
Sulfate byprod. 22 106 122
VOA is by Dyson Analysis. For premium kits, this is an ISO certified lab in TX. They only accept commercial customers, and they have an exclusive agreement with Terry.
Terry recommended RLI 0W20 for my application, a 2009 Honda Civic Hybrid, without reservation. I had previously used Red Line 5W30 in my hot-running 1997 Camry V6 with a 5-spd manual. The Red Line 0W20 is fairly new to the market. RL and RLI are arguably the top two ester-based oils, hence this comparison. I was also curious about Honda 0W20, a Group III oil which exceeds GF-4/SM requirements (US version, Barcode 08798-9029).
As always, the contaminant and wear metals can be many things: correctly labeled, intentional additives, chemical reactions, false readings, etc. It’s tricky stuff to read. Similarly, additives have generated many arguments in the past. Which ones are good vs. bad for the engine? With the premium kit, Terry will discuss every element on his MP3. This is not meant to be a teaser, just saying that if you want to know, then hire the man.
Flash point is the Continuously Closed Cup Flash Point (CCCFP). This ASTM D6450 standard is newer than the D93 Pensky-Martens Closed Cup (PMCC). Yeah, I had to look this stuff up. Terry said to add 30-50° F to get the open cup (D92 Cleveland Open Cup - COC). There is no exact conversion factor between closed and open cup.
Notice the Red Line TAN is 2.12, but the RLI is lower at 0.61. I searched BITOG for past RLI VOAs, and the lowest was 1.3 for RLI 0W30 by johnbottilaw on 8/26/08. Something new and presumably good is happening here, but I have no idea what it is.
The Karl Fischer titration measures water in parts per million (ppm), so the oils show water readings between 0.1% and 0.2%. All three oils have water dilution? Not likely.
The Honda 0W20 looks impressive for the price, but base oils created from Group V esters still have advantages:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1252272
JoeFromPA mentions that ester-based oils start with a TAN of 2-3, but rise slowly:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1486512&page=all
The issue of TAN in ester-based oils is discussed by saaber1 and Tom NJ here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1583684&page=all
NOTE: I asked Terry about performing two additional tests: HTHS and CCS or MRV. He can source these tests, but his educated guess was at a cost of over $300 apiece. This is too rich for my blood, but they are still available for those with deep pockets. Cool specs to know.
Honda Red RLI
Genuine Line Bio-Syn
0W20 0W20 0W20
WEAR METALS:
Iron………………………. 1 2 1
Copper……………….. 0 0 0
Tin………………….……. 6 8 0
Lead…………………….. 0 0 1
Chromium……………. 0 0 0
Nickel…………………. 0 0 0
Aluminum………….. 1 2 0
Titanium……………. 0 0 0
Silver……………….. 0 0 0
ADDITIVE METALS:
Calcium….…………. 1545 2213 1893
Magnesium…….…. 8 14 10
Zinc…..………………. 833 1565 1041
Phosphorous……. 831 1219 769
Barium……...……… 4 2 0
Molybdenum………. 1065 1290 0
Antimony………….. 0 0 206
CONTAMINANT METALS:
Silicon…………….… 3 33 1
Sodium……..………… 3 34 10
Boron……….……….. 63 19 13
Potassium…………. 0 0 0
Vanadium………….. 0 0 0
PHYSICAL AND OTHER:
Viscosity 40°C 40.4 43.4 43.5
Viscosity 100°C 8.7 8.3 8.4
Viscosity Index 203 171 174
Flash(CCCFP)°F 410 395 410
TAN…………...………… 1.40 2.12 0.61
TBN……..…………….. 5.2 6.8 6.3
Oxidation…………. 16 158 152
Nitration…………… 4 7 6
Water by KF……. 1226 1676 1553
Fuel……..………….. 0.07 0 0
Soot………..……….. 0 0 0
Glycol……...….. 0.12 0 0
Sulfate byprod. 22 106 122
VOA is by Dyson Analysis. For premium kits, this is an ISO certified lab in TX. They only accept commercial customers, and they have an exclusive agreement with Terry.
Terry recommended RLI 0W20 for my application, a 2009 Honda Civic Hybrid, without reservation. I had previously used Red Line 5W30 in my hot-running 1997 Camry V6 with a 5-spd manual. The Red Line 0W20 is fairly new to the market. RL and RLI are arguably the top two ester-based oils, hence this comparison. I was also curious about Honda 0W20, a Group III oil which exceeds GF-4/SM requirements (US version, Barcode 08798-9029).
As always, the contaminant and wear metals can be many things: correctly labeled, intentional additives, chemical reactions, false readings, etc. It’s tricky stuff to read. Similarly, additives have generated many arguments in the past. Which ones are good vs. bad for the engine? With the premium kit, Terry will discuss every element on his MP3. This is not meant to be a teaser, just saying that if you want to know, then hire the man.
Flash point is the Continuously Closed Cup Flash Point (CCCFP). This ASTM D6450 standard is newer than the D93 Pensky-Martens Closed Cup (PMCC). Yeah, I had to look this stuff up. Terry said to add 30-50° F to get the open cup (D92 Cleveland Open Cup - COC). There is no exact conversion factor between closed and open cup.
Notice the Red Line TAN is 2.12, but the RLI is lower at 0.61. I searched BITOG for past RLI VOAs, and the lowest was 1.3 for RLI 0W30 by johnbottilaw on 8/26/08. Something new and presumably good is happening here, but I have no idea what it is.
The Karl Fischer titration measures water in parts per million (ppm), so the oils show water readings between 0.1% and 0.2%. All three oils have water dilution? Not likely.
The Honda 0W20 looks impressive for the price, but base oils created from Group V esters still have advantages:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1252272
JoeFromPA mentions that ester-based oils start with a TAN of 2-3, but rise slowly:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1486512&page=all
The issue of TAN in ester-based oils is discussed by saaber1 and Tom NJ here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1583684&page=all
NOTE: I asked Terry about performing two additional tests: HTHS and CCS or MRV. He can source these tests, but his educated guess was at a cost of over $300 apiece. This is too rich for my blood, but they are still available for those with deep pockets. Cool specs to know.