Moly and wet clutches

[daz]

My dealer (triumph) is adamant that Torco blend which he uses in all his bikes and customers bike (unless they object) is the absolute best motor oil for a motorcycle. I tend to be suspicious of this even with his credentials. Those being that he is a racer/builder of hot triumphs since i think the 50's, and in fact he just broke 5 new speeds records at bonneville a few weeks ago. So itn would seem he should know oil. But i still wonder because i read that moly can cause problems in wet clutches. Maybe i'm foolish for even asking since he has bonnevilles and thruxtons that have been boosted from thier stock 60-70 HP to as much as 300. So i would think if moly was an issue it would have revealed the issues with his race bikes. But then who knows....he could used something else in those and won't admit it to me. He IS a business man too after all.

So heres the question....i have a new triumph 1600 cruiser that has a lot of torque. I read about moly being a problem with wet clutches in an old post here, yet torco blend which according to some oil comparisons i have seen has something like 80% more moly than the next highest oil. Yet my dealer uses it as far as i know in all customers bikes that don't specifically ask for something else. That even includes the 2300cc rocketIII. So what am i missing here? Can anyone explain to me why he seems to be successfully using an oil that has a ton of moly in it in his race bikes and his customers bikes yet i then read it will slip wet clutches? i really want to know because i had changed to M1 right after break in oil but am about to change to torco since my dealer provides it to me free as a perk for buying from them.

 

[heavyhitter]

Limited amounts of moly in your oil will be fine.

Also the Torco he is adamant about isnt "all that" there are a few OA's on this forum of that oil.

 

[dsmith41]

Yeah I believe even the Honda GN4 motorcycle oil that was factory fill for my bike even has some moly in it. Small amounts are okay.

I will echo many people on the board and say this: Dump some HDEO like Rotella in it and be done.

 

[daz]

Yeah, but this oil supposedly has a boatload of moly. Even in a comparison i read of about 10 or 15 oils they showed the Torco has literally like 80% more than the next highest moly oil. But the guy runs it in every thing including his race bikes with ungodly power and customers bikes including the R3 that has 140 Ft Lbs of torque. that alone should tell me moly is not an issue with clutches, but then i read here it is so i'm confused. Maybe it could be that moly only attaches itself to metal and thats why it has no effect on clutches? (only attaches to metal as per the article here)

 

[whitesands]

There are different forms of moly..If I remember correctly one form is more of an antiwear and another is for the reduction of friction...I don't think VOA will distinguish between the two...

Also, often when engines are modified for more hp/torque heavier springs are used in the clutch.

 

[daz]

Quote:
Also, often when engines are modified for more hp/torque heavier springs are used in the clutch.


yes, but like i said he uses it in his customers bikes, everything from speed triples to the rocket, my 1600 cruiser, you name it. It goes into a wide range of bike style from stock to modded.

maybe it has to do with your other remark with the 2 different types of moly. Of course if thats the case it raises another question....if it's so good why do other oils have so little moly.

 

[BigCahuna]

Redline oils have the highest moly levels that I have seen. Even the one listed in the voa section, which is 5 yrs old shows the lowest redline at 605ppm. I wouldn't use that in any situation where it bathes the clutch.,

 

[Tree Hugger]

A good oil for racing is not necessarily even acceptable for street use. Racing engines are not expected to last long compare with street engines, and they get torn down quite often.

 

[daz]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Redline oils have the highest moly levels that I have seen. Even the one listed in the voa section, which is 5 yrs old shows the lowest redline at 605ppm. I wouldn't use that in any situation where it bathes the clutch.,


Torco is close with just a hair under 600.

Originally Posted By: Tree Hugger
A good oil for racing is not necessarily even acceptable for street use. Racing engines are not expected to last long compare with street engines, and they get torn down quite often.


See my last post.

 

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted By: whitesands
There are different forms of moly..If I remember correctly one form is more of an antiwear and another is for the reduction of friction...I don't think VOA will distinguish between the two...

Also, often when engines are modified for more hp/torque heavier springs are used in the clutch.



That is correct, based on all the research and reading I have done. The Moly that is being used in these modern day oils, is not the Moly of old that caused clutch slippage.

Case in point...the latest blend of Delo 400....It is friggin loaded with Moly...and there are no reports of wet clutch slippage, as far as I can tell. I have run this newer Delo in two of my bikes....a Suzuki V-Twin and a Honda 650 Thumper....and absolutely no slippage.

 

[heavyhitter]

Originally Posted By: daz
[ Of course if thats the case it raises another question....if it's so good why do other oils have so little moly.


There is more to a guality oil than the amount of moly it contains.

I assume you have a Thunderbird 1600, while a nice bike it isnt what I would call high performance. I would say that any motorcycle oil, HDEO, or auto 20w50 would provide more than enough protection for your bike. The truth be told the price of oil does not scale with the performance of the oil. Sure there are some quality botique oils that cost an arm and leg but there are also less expensive oils on the market that mop up some of these "specialized oils".

I wouldnt worry about torque too much causing clutch slippage. I work with a guy that has a T-bird 1600 and we went Star Days (a local dealer summer event) if you buy $100 worth of merchandise you get a free dyno. His T-bird pulled 103ft/lbs my cruiser pulled 115ft/lbs. My cruiser did that with on an aircooled pushrod Vtwin. It has had Rotella T in it since the first OCI.

p.s. Rotella also goes into my 175hp 103ft/lbs nake too.

 

[daz]

Whats the point of your post? to say your MODDED HD is stronger than my STOCK triumph? this has nothing to do with the question at hand so thats what i have to assume. So then lets go there .....The triumph BB kit brings it up 10 Lbs more and 15 more hp. You HD won't touch it then. Pipes and airways mods too, fuggedaboudit. And lets not go on about handling....you may as well be quiet on that point because it's not even close.

anyways, the thread was about moly and i didn't hear you say anything about that.

 

[ccdhowell]

I've run Red Line Racing 40wt in a wet clutch 700cc single with no problems what-so-ever. The UOA listed 937 ppm moly.

 

[heavyhitter]

Originally Posted By: daz
Whats the point of your post? to say your MODDED HD is stronger than my STOCK triumph? this has nothing to do with the question at hand so thats what i have to assume. So then lets go there .....The triumph BB kit brings it up 10 Lbs more and 15 more hp. You HD won't touch it then. Pipes and airways mods too, fuggedaboudit. And lets not go on about handling....you may as well be quiet on that point because it's not even close.

anyways, the thread was about moly and i didn't hear you say anything about that.


***** your post states your ignorance.

1. The first sentence is about moly.

2. You sure know your Harleys LOL

3. A T-Bird out handle the "best" handling cruiser to date? ok

4. Its pretty stock, the pipes actually take away a liitle HP.

The point of my post was that your bike doesnt develop enough torque to be the sole cause of clutch slippage. But you must have taken it as some personal attack.

I apologize I am sure your T-bird with the steel frame and coil shocks and damper rod forks will probbaly thrash the Warrior on the twisties, because the cast aluminum fram and R1 suspension and R1 derived brakes are so [censored].

 

[daz]

Right...and you're the guy who posts only to brag about your harley in a thread where i asked about how moly affects a clutch. Show me the ignorance pal. Give me an example. Show me where you mentioned how your mighty harley had no problem using moly. Or anything related to the subject at hand. All i see is a guy who feels his bike is better and has some warped need to tell me so. Loser...

 

[heavyhitter]

Originally Posted By: daz
Right...and you're the guy who posts only to brag about your harley in a thread where i asked about how moly affects a clutch. Show me the ignorance pal. Give me an example. Show me where you mentioned how your mighty harley had no problem using moly. Or anything related to the subject at hand. All i see is a guy who feels his bike is better and has some warped need to tell me so. Loser...


Where is the pop corn

 

[chevrofreak]

Yeah, I see no point in bringing up your Harley in this thread either.

 

[heavyhitter]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Yeah, I see no point in bringing up your Harley in this thread either.


The POINT is this.... well where this Harley you guys keep referring too?

The POINT is the OP is he felt that clutch issues can be caused by too much torque, I am just saying that his bike will NOT create enough toque to ruin his clutch and sited that I have a bike that makes MORE torque and does NOT cause an issue with the clutch......

blah this thread is a waste of my time..... Keep buying Torco! Its the best oil ever and anything less will damage your power spewing hotrod there.

 

[daz]

Quote:
The POINT is the OP is he felt that clutch issues can be caused by too much torque


Yeah, right...read a little closer pal. You mentioned NOTHING about moly and wet clutches. All you mentioned is that moly has nothing to do with an oil's quality. Duh ! The bottle it comes in doesn't either, whats the point....it wasn't about oil quality, it was about MOLY and WET CLUTCHES, something you constantly avoid because your post had nothing to do with that.

I may not know much about harelys, but i do know you bike ain't gonna make 115 Lbs stock. I've never seen a stock HD listed over about 90-95 somewhere in there. And thats not real RW either. I also know the Tbird won cycle worlds cruiser of the year already and it handles like NO harley ever will, and thats not just from me but from numerous owners and mag article. Trust me on this one, you know one heck of a lot less about my bike than i do about harleys. But i do realize all you're truing to do is save face after making such a fool of yourself, so i do understand your panic.

 

[heavyhitter]

Daz,
You sure have some big brass ones for being a new guy on BITOG.

I was the first responder to your question and even suggested that there are UOA's on this forum for you to look at and see the effects of this oil yourself.

I also tell you some advice that many on this most on this board will agree will with and that dont let pice and brand influence your buying desision.

You also state - "So heres the question....i have a new triumph 1600 cruiser that has a lot of torque. I read about moly being a problem with wet clutches in an old post here" I told you of a real life situation which included real torque numbers and and there was no clutch issues.

I even complimenred you on your bike and said the Tbird is a nice bike. Since my dyno created more torque you assumed I was raining on your parade and perhaps you feel you need big numbers to compensate for other things.

ig nor rant -adjective
due to or showing lack of knowledge or training

Your ignorance comes in how you keep telling me about my Harley this my Harley that.... since you are so educated on the subject.

Well sir, that is NOT a Harley, I have owned a HD in 15 years. I gues I was educated to know what bike you own with out you even mentioning it was a Thunderbird.

You rant about a bike that is not even mentioned on this thread. But you claim "Trust me on this one, you know one heck of a lot less about my bike than i do about harleys". I think it is rather hilarious that you know so much about Harley's yet you cannot even IDENTIFY one.

FYI, you wont last to long around here with the name calling. Get your facts straight before you sound off because it does make you look rather foolish.