Haven't really given much thought to this brand, but Cummins recommends it in my owners manual and, recently, I was having some warranty work done on my ISX and you could tell that they are really all over the stuff at the Cummins shops. Was wondering if the more informed here are familiar with the Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40 CJ-4 CES 20081 oil and how it compares to other brands. Cummins is allowing an OCI extension of 5000 miles if using this oil. I have been using another brand of oil, but curiosity has me wondering how good this stuff is.
Valvoline Premium Blue 15w40
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Oh... another reason for my curiosity... the stuff is around $10 a gallon at my local tire and oil supply dealer.
dnewton3
Staff member
By "OCI extension of 5000 miles" do you mean 5k miles in addition to the regular OCI of 5k miles? That seems unlikely, but I'm not that well versed on Cummins warranty, so it's certainly possible.
The VPB CJ-4 is a fine product, as are all the major brands (Delo, Delvac, Rotella, Tection Extra, etc). They all meet/exceed the Cummins CES 20081 tests. That can typically be said of all these products regarding all the major engine OEM lube specs from Mack, Volvo, Navistar, DDC, etc. (As always, there may be some excpetion to the rule, so check the lube website for specifics). The lube manufacturers design and market their products for a wide range of applications, so that the ROI is optimzed. Most of the OEM specs are similar enough that a well designed and made lube will suffice for all the applications.
And the cost you quote is about what you can find most of these for by shopping around.
IMHO, the brand loyality to lubes far exceeds the actual performance differences between them.
The VPB CJ-4 is a fine product, as are all the major brands (Delo, Delvac, Rotella, Tection Extra, etc). They all meet/exceed the Cummins CES 20081 tests. That can typically be said of all these products regarding all the major engine OEM lube specs from Mack, Volvo, Navistar, DDC, etc. (As always, there may be some excpetion to the rule, so check the lube website for specifics). The lube manufacturers design and market their products for a wide range of applications, so that the ROI is optimzed. Most of the OEM specs are similar enough that a well designed and made lube will suffice for all the applications.
And the cost you quote is about what you can find most of these for by shopping around.
IMHO, the brand loyality to lubes far exceeds the actual performance differences between them.
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
By "OCI extension of 5000 miles" do you mean 5k miles in addition to the regular OCI of 5k miles? That seems unlikely, but I'm not that well versed on Cummins warranty, so it's certainly possible.[/color]
Not quite. Cummins OCI on the ISX is 25,000 miles. Cummins will have no problem extending it to 30,000 if you use the Valvoline PB. I haven't seen a diesel OEM OCI that low (5000 miles) for quite a while. My Jeep Liberty Diesel has an OEM OCI of 12K miles. And the samples verify that OCI. If I had to change my ISX at 5000 miles, I would be dropping 10 gallons of oil every week and a half (ouch!). I guess I would agree that brand loyalty is probably more a factor than any major difference in oils today. Cummins does have a partnership with Ashland Oil (Valvoline), so that may factor more into their statements. Thanks for the reply!!
By "OCI extension of 5000 miles" do you mean 5k miles in addition to the regular OCI of 5k miles? That seems unlikely, but I'm not that well versed on Cummins warranty, so it's certainly possible.[/color]
Not quite. Cummins OCI on the ISX is 25,000 miles. Cummins will have no problem extending it to 30,000 if you use the Valvoline PB. I haven't seen a diesel OEM OCI that low (5000 miles) for quite a while. My Jeep Liberty Diesel has an OEM OCI of 12K miles. And the samples verify that OCI. If I had to change my ISX at 5000 miles, I would be dropping 10 gallons of oil every week and a half (ouch!). I guess I would agree that brand loyalty is probably more a factor than any major difference in oils today. Cummins does have a partnership with Ashland Oil (Valvoline), so that may factor more into their statements. Thanks for the reply!!
dnewton3
Staff member
OK - that makes a lot more sense! I mis-read and was thinking of the ISB, not ISX. My mistake. My apologies.
You certainly can't go wrong with VPB; good stuff.
Still - I suspect all the quality competitors (Delo, Delvac, Rotella, etc) would likely be just as capable in that regard, moving from 25k to 30k miles.
You certainly can't go wrong with VPB; good stuff.
Still - I suspect all the quality competitors (Delo, Delvac, Rotella, etc) would likely be just as capable in that regard, moving from 25k to 30k miles.
I still have to change my Delvac at 5k miles in my old Mercedes.
And I'm lucky to get 3K out of mine!!
BTW, Valvoline makes a decent dino HDEO, but IMHO Delvac 1300, Shell Rotella T, and Chevron Delo 400 are all better. Cummins is getting some $$$ from Valvoline for the advertising.
That was what I was suspecting also, bullwinkle. After looking around the web a bit, I got the feeling that it is more than just getting $$$. I think they are affiliated business'. I would concur with dnewton though, that it is probably a comparable product to the big three. It just doesn't have the market share and shelf exposure as the other three. My tire and oil supplier deals with 6 different brands of oil. It is just a matter of getting the best cost. Just as others have done, I tend to favor a particular brand and stick with it. With the Valvoline offering, I was just doing a little research and seeing if anyone had used the stuff and what kind of results they had got. I can't recall ever using a Valvoline product in my life. Thanks for the responses.
Here is an article you may want to check out.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/tdrarticles/tdrarticle56_lubeoilspecs.html
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/tdrarticles/tdrarticle56_lubeoilspecs.html
dnewton3
Staff member
We've seen that article and discussed it. Been there many times before. (BTW - not that it's right or wrong, but you have to ackowledge on some level, a possible bias from the TDR website, as it is obviously Cummins focused, which would then lead one to suspect they "favor" Valvoline, whether intentionally or not ...).
Regarding the topic at hand; as always, knowing the inputs are good, but knowing the results are what's most impressive. In other words, VOAs are interesting, but UOAs are telling. All of the major brands have plenty of good UOAs to show excellent performance on this site, and likely a bad one here and there (not always directely attributed to the oil).
It's a matter of analyzing your operating and maintenance patterns, and then selecting a lubricant to satisfy your needs. No one in their right mind would run dino HDEO for a 25k mile OCI in a 3 gallon sump engine with a Fram OCOD filter. But conversely, it would be foolish to run Amsoil DEO with an EaO filter for 5k mile OCIs. One is foolish, the other hugely wasteful.
If you're going to run "normal" maintenance patterns (as defined by the OEM) and operate in "normal" environments, then dinos will fill the bill quite adequately, and there are lots of quality brand names to choose from.
Going all the way back to the OPs original question; how "good" is the VPB? It's apparently good enough that Cummins OKs it for a 20% extension of OCI. But, you have to keep in mind that Cummins is probably using bulk house brand oil as a baseline for that comparison. ANY CJ-4 rated oil will work, but certainly there are some that can outperform others. It's highly likely that Delo, Delvac or Rotella could match the performance curve and be applicable for that same 20% increase in OCI, but they don't have a "special" relationship with Cummins as does Valvoline, so they are not "approved" as such.
Regarding the topic at hand; as always, knowing the inputs are good, but knowing the results are what's most impressive. In other words, VOAs are interesting, but UOAs are telling. All of the major brands have plenty of good UOAs to show excellent performance on this site, and likely a bad one here and there (not always directely attributed to the oil).
It's a matter of analyzing your operating and maintenance patterns, and then selecting a lubricant to satisfy your needs. No one in their right mind would run dino HDEO for a 25k mile OCI in a 3 gallon sump engine with a Fram OCOD filter. But conversely, it would be foolish to run Amsoil DEO with an EaO filter for 5k mile OCIs. One is foolish, the other hugely wasteful.
If you're going to run "normal" maintenance patterns (as defined by the OEM) and operate in "normal" environments, then dinos will fill the bill quite adequately, and there are lots of quality brand names to choose from.
Going all the way back to the OPs original question; how "good" is the VPB? It's apparently good enough that Cummins OKs it for a 20% extension of OCI. But, you have to keep in mind that Cummins is probably using bulk house brand oil as a baseline for that comparison. ANY CJ-4 rated oil will work, but certainly there are some that can outperform others. It's highly likely that Delo, Delvac or Rotella could match the performance curve and be applicable for that same 20% increase in OCI, but they don't have a "special" relationship with Cummins as does Valvoline, so they are not "approved" as such.
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dnewton3,
Thank you for sharing your comments. I agree with your general opinions about HDEO and the Valvolene/Cummins marketing strategy. John Deere does a similar approach with their Plus 50 oil.
As much as we want to believe their is a holy grail HDEO, I doubt that we could determine it. I've stated this here before: A few years back I corresponded with the late "Stinky Peterson" at the CAT Butler Oil Labs and he said after many 1,000's of UOAs on all types of equipment, he could not I.D. a holy grail HDEO, and this included the boutique brands.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for sharing your comments. I agree with your general opinions about HDEO and the Valvolene/Cummins marketing strategy. John Deere does a similar approach with their Plus 50 oil.
As much as we want to believe their is a holy grail HDEO, I doubt that we could determine it. I've stated this here before: A few years back I corresponded with the late "Stinky Peterson" at the CAT Butler Oil Labs and he said after many 1,000's of UOAs on all types of equipment, he could not I.D. a holy grail HDEO, and this included the boutique brands.
Thanks for sharing.
Originally Posted By: CDX825
Here is an article you may want to check out.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/tdrarticles/tdrarticle56_lubeoilspecs.html
Interesting-he wouldn't "touch a crankcase of Rotella T or Delvac 1300 if it was free"-2 of the most used & best regarded HDEOs out there-& he'd take SUPER TECH over them??!? Personally, I'm not a huge fan of TDR, & I've had TWO Cummins powered Dodges-probably due to the fact that they are only in the internet business for money (i.e. membership fees) and their info really isn't any better than what can be found elsewhere. VPB is a decent oil, I run it in the PSD in both dino & syn forms, seems fine-but only 5K OCIs.
Here is an article you may want to check out.
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/tdrarticles/tdrarticle56_lubeoilspecs.html
Interesting-he wouldn't "touch a crankcase of Rotella T or Delvac 1300 if it was free"-2 of the most used & best regarded HDEOs out there-& he'd take SUPER TECH over them??!? Personally, I'm not a huge fan of TDR, & I've had TWO Cummins powered Dodges-probably due to the fact that they are only in the internet business for money (i.e. membership fees) and their info really isn't any better than what can be found elsewhere. VPB is a decent oil, I run it in the PSD in both dino & syn forms, seems fine-but only 5K OCIs.
Not a bad oil in the same boat i think as Delo, Delvac, Rotella. use with no worries,i've been stocking up on JD's Plus 50,better add pack being CI-4.
dnewton3
Staff member
FastSUV - I guess it depends upon how you define "better", right?
Again, knowing the starting point of any situation is not near as important as knowing the end results. Why do we play the whole game in sports? One team might be "better" in stats, but you just simply never know until the fat lady is done and walks off stage. I'll take the known results over a prediction any day.
Is Mystic "better"? I don't know that I'd agree or disagree. VOAs or PDSs might show some key points of interest, indicating potential performance. But UOAs show the ACTUAL performance.
Mystik fluids are not widely seen on this site, compared to many of the mainstream products. So it's a bit difficult to tell which is "better" from such a small view. I suspect Mystik products are very good when used in the correct context. But "better"? I'm not sure.
I have no problems with Mystik; I use much of their (rebranded) stuff such as grease and UTF from my local TSC and Rural King farm stores. Mystic does have an interesting product (to me at least) in their semi-synthtic "super heavy duty engine oil" JT-8 in 10w-30. I'd like to try it. But I see no sense in spending the money (about $12/gallon) when I just got some Delvac 1300 15w-40 (a proven winner) at $6.50/gallon BOGOF.
Beauty is in the eye of the oil beholder ...
Again, knowing the starting point of any situation is not near as important as knowing the end results. Why do we play the whole game in sports? One team might be "better" in stats, but you just simply never know until the fat lady is done and walks off stage. I'll take the known results over a prediction any day.
Is Mystic "better"? I don't know that I'd agree or disagree. VOAs or PDSs might show some key points of interest, indicating potential performance. But UOAs show the ACTUAL performance.
Mystik fluids are not widely seen on this site, compared to many of the mainstream products. So it's a bit difficult to tell which is "better" from such a small view. I suspect Mystik products are very good when used in the correct context. But "better"? I'm not sure.
I have no problems with Mystik; I use much of their (rebranded) stuff such as grease and UTF from my local TSC and Rural King farm stores. Mystic does have an interesting product (to me at least) in their semi-synthtic "super heavy duty engine oil" JT-8 in 10w-30. I'd like to try it. But I see no sense in spending the money (about $12/gallon) when I just got some Delvac 1300 15w-40 (a proven winner) at $6.50/gallon BOGOF.
Beauty is in the eye of the oil beholder ...
very interesting... thanks for the insight...I actually just got a case of the 10w30 SuperHeavyDuty syn-blend and plan to try it in my flat-tappet 4.0L Jeep. I have now switched to their grease, gear oil, and now motor oil...they are "mysterious" to me LOL...j/k
Anybody got some UOA's with VPB? I am really curious as to how it stacks up against the Rotella, Delo, and Delvac.
The high moly levels cited in the link pique my interest from a wear reduction perspective, as well as the high phosphorus and zinc levels.
Can anyone confirm the accuracy of the VOA data from the TDR site? As said before, the VOA may be a good predictor, but UOA will be the telltale.
The high moly levels cited in the link pique my interest from a wear reduction perspective, as well as the high phosphorus and zinc levels.
Can anyone confirm the accuracy of the VOA data from the TDR site? As said before, the VOA may be a good predictor, but UOA will be the telltale.
dnewton3
Staff member
robertj- Welcome!
Check the UOA section for results; look further down the site list. Then you can use the search feature for results. I'm sure you'll find some, but not near as many as the big three (Delo, Delvac, Rotella).
Check the UOA section for results; look further down the site list. Then you can use the search feature for results. I'm sure you'll find some, but not near as many as the big three (Delo, Delvac, Rotella).
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