E-85 hurts more than it helps

[swalve]

Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
It is open loop operation that concerns me, because the ECU will pick the AFR off the map designed for gasoline at WOT. This might create a lean condition in the worst of scenarios (wide open throttle). Is my thinking flawed?


It makes sense, but I think the computer still uses the long term fuel calibration numbers in open loop.

 

[CROWNVIC4LIFE]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
I think E-85 vehicles hurt more than help the U.S. They not only get worse gas mileage than a gas vehicle, but it is hurting food production and food prices by taking corn out of the food stream. ( Corn is in a unbelievable amount of products )

What is your opinion? Helps or Hurts?


Hurts!

 

[ZZman]

It seems to have fallen out of favor already.

 

[Bamaro]

There is nothing wrong with E85 as long as you have a reasonable way to produce it. Corn is not.

 

[oldsmobill]

Here in Minnesota, ethanol is mandated in all on-road gasoline. It is a crime to put non-oxygenated gasoline in your car if it cant have classic plates.

The ONLY reason for this, and the MANDATED increase to 20% ethanol, is to please the corn industry. It is political, it is not about the environment or energy independence.

We would not have ethanol in our fuel at all if it wasn't for the corn producing agribusiness. It is that simple. We would probably have a lot more diesel cars on the road though.

Ethanol is great as a specialist fuel. Put the stuff in IndyCars, thats great. However it is not a viable fuel at this time for energy independence and energy cost effectiveness, especially from corn.

Too bad the US cant produce enough sugar to make ethanol that works. It takes a lot of sun energy to make ethanol, and we just cant get enough per car in the US like Brazil can.

(I should also add that per Minnesota law, it is illegal to use anything but ethanol to oxygenate fuel. No MTBE, no ETBE, no methanol, no butanol, no nothing. It is against the law. You think that is an environmental issue when it takes more than 1 BTU of energy to make 1 BTU's worth of ethanol go juice?)

Agribusiness scam

 

[Samilcar]

Originally Posted By: oldsmobill


Too bad the US cant produce enough sugar to make ethanol that works.



The sad thing is that we could probably come awfully close.

The price of domestically produced sugar is kept so artificially high by government favors that it doesn't make economic sense to use it for ethanol production. Imported sugar prices are likewise kept artificially high by tariffs.

 

[oldsmobill]

Does it really surprise anyone that our government would manipulate things in an asinine such as to destroy the functions of the free market and create a torrent of unintended consequences?

 

[labman]

Write your congressman and demand they take over health care at once.

 

[oldsmobill]

Step 1: Ethanol

Step 2: Universal Health Care

Step 3: The World!


In all seriousness, anytime you have congressmen deciding what your car runs on (or how it is built, ehm GM) be very wary.

Lawmakers do not know more than everyone else.

 

[JustinH]

We have 10 percent ethanol on every pump here in NY.

My gas mileage in my saturn ion is 30mpg in mixed driving, not a mile more.

When we get the winter blend of fuel, I suppose it has more ethanol in it, my gas mileage goes to 28mpg or 26mpg.

This is very poor for a 4 cylinder manual transmission car.

Not just my car, every car I have ran in this state has gotten very poor gas mileage.

I'm not sure if PA still has the ethanol free gas, but a few years ago they did, and my cars noticed an immediate gain in fuel mileage.

 

[oldsmobill]

The winter reformulated fuel has more wrong with it than the Ethanol. They lower the aromatic content and reduce other components to lower evaporative emissions so much that the energy content of the gasoline drops, so you need more of it.

real gasoline has something like 125,000 BTUs per gallon.

gasoline with 10% ethanol on average 120,900 BTU's per gallon.

Winter reformulated fuel with 10% ethanol has around 116,000 BTU's per gallon.

 

[LS2JSTS]

Originally Posted By: oldsmobill
Does it really surprise anyone that our government would manipulate things in an asinine such as to destroy the functions of the free market and create a torrent of unintended consequences?



Yeah....And then have the giant gonads required to turn around and blame the free market for the problems they themselves cause.

Our whole world is 180 degrees out of sync. Night is Day and right is wrong. Look at Barney Frank as he blow hards out his wind pipe about how corrupt Fannie/Freddie are while no one see the truth that Barney was the one in charge of overseeing them in the first place. The foxes are running the hen house these days!