High Oil Temperature?

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davidyan

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Hi all- I have an 09 Nissan 370Z and many people on the nissan forum are posting (daily) of high oil temperatures so I thought i would take some questions here.

Our cars average about 220F oil temps but easily get up to 240F - 260F in stop and go driving, hot days, or racing (though racing is def not a requirement to reach this temp.) Many on the board think it is unusually high but there are mixed responses. One knowledgable commentator noted that Nissan engine bearings are made of a softer metal in the newer models for environmental purposes and that these new bearings are not as resistant to high temps. At the end of the day, the car is too new to know for certain the long-term effects of these temps. Everyone seems to just guess randomly.

My questions:

- is 240 - 260F normal? Should I be concerned?

- What is the average oil temp (at operating temp) for most cars? I've heard around 190 - 220F. What about for a high-performance engine?

- Do you think oil would break down at about 240 - 260?

A couple points for reference to anticipate some questions: Nissan recommends a 5w30 oil. It also recommends (though not requiring) an Ester based oil. BTW-,the technical papers from Nissan state the Ester rec. based not on temperatures but because of its VVEL valvetrain, just FYI. The car is a 3.7L V6 with a stated engine (flywheel)HP of 332. Same engine on the 08+ Infiniti G37.
 
Well, first that's the same engine in 80% of Nissan's products, and I really wouldn't be so worried about the longevity of the long block since it has been around for awhile in 3.0, then 3.5 liter forms. The aux stuff may be unique to your app, but the rest and even the valvetrain has been around for awhile.

I do think those oil temps are on the high side of acceptable, but I'd be surprised that there isn't an oil/water heat exchanger in there. Maybe there is and this is still happening?

And yes, why on earth does anyone with that amount of cash to drop on a car not think a synthetic is a reasonable choice. The Ester based oils (or even those with just a significant portion of it) have a higher heat capacity and a better tolerance for heat.
 
Not sure about the ester vs VVEL valvetrain part (don't understand), but studies showed that oil temp 130-150C accelerate wear (I guess due to thinning of oil).

I would use ACEA: A3 oils in this application (HTHS>3.5).
 
The engine is new in 08 and tends to run hotter than its predecessor 3.5L. To answer the above VVEL question, VVEL is Nissan's variable valve timing / lift feature. (similar to Honda's VTEC, Toyota's VVTL-I, BMW's Double Vanos, etc.) The quietness of valvetrain operation calls for the recommended Ester. Most of us are using synthetics with esters (like Redline).

There have been a couple theories as to why the temps are high:

- The VVEL requires high oil pressure to operate driving up the temps. Although higher oil pressure would increase temp, I doubt its the sole reason because previous generation Nissans have VVEL too and they don't run as hot.
- Close engine clearances.
- the stock oil cooler embedded within the radiator is too small and/or doesn't get enough airflow.

Regarding the ACEA A3, isn't that a BMW spec? Would it help with high temps due to the higher shear rating? thanks. I know M1 has a 5w30 ESP formula for BMW and MB that has this rating. Is it ok for non BMW / MB cars?
 
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ACEA A3 is a european spec for HTHS >=3.5cP@320F. Which is a test fo the oils high temperature viscosity under high shear conditions. Redline 5W30 meets this spec. I would still be tempted to put an oil to air cooler in front of the radiator plumbed after the stock cooler. More so if I was racing it.
 
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ACEA A3 is a European specification from what translates to European Automibile Manufacturers Association, its not BMW specific. In my opinion the European specs are far more extensive than US and Asian specs. The A3 spec is common for high performance, high heat apps such sa the Z car. It specs among other things as stated before 3.5 HTHS visc at 150C to help maintain adequete film strength in hotter parts of the engine or under overall high temps. The esters by nature will often maintain film strength under higher heat specs, for example see the Redline spec sheet. For more reference on Euro specs see here, http://www.acea.be/images/uploads/pub/070308_ACEA_sequences_2007_LD_and_HD.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: davidyan
The engine is new in 08 and tends to run hotter than its predecessor 3.5L. To answer the above VVEL question, VVEL is Nissan's variable valve timing / lift feature. (similar to Honda's VTEC, Toyota's VVTL-I, BMW's Double Vanos, etc.) The quietness of valvetrain operation calls for the recommended Ester. Most of us are using synthetics with esters (like Redline).

There have been a couple theories as to why the temps are high:

- The VVEL requires high oil pressure to operate driving up the temps. Although higher oil pressure would increase temp, I doubt its the sole reason because previous generation Nissans have VVEL too and they don't run as hot.
- Close engine clearances.
- the stock oil cooler embedded within the radiator is too small and/or doesn't get enough airflow.

Regarding the ACEA A3, isn't that a BMW spec? Would it help with high temps due to the higher shear rating? thanks. I know M1 has a 5w30 ESP formula for BMW and MB that has this rating. Is it ok for non BMW / MB cars?


I doubt raising oil pressure would raise the oil temps any measurable amount.

Those temps won't hurt an Ester based oil like Redline but viscosity may suffer pretty badly. A good oil cooler coupled with an oil like Redline seem like the logical choices.

I had no idea these engines ran that hot during daily driving. I always assumed it was when pushed during track duty. Might as well skip the factory style cooler for something a little better if it gets that hot from normal use.
 
I am still breaking in my '09 370Z, I have just about 1000 miles on the odometer. The highest temp I have observed yet was 224 F and that was in stop & go traffic on a near 100 degree day. High air flow through the grill has a direct bearing on the temp. (I know, duh....) I have done 80-85 MPH on the freeway with outside temps in the 90's and the oil temp gauge stays at about 180 degrees, but get stuck in 20 MPH traffic and the temp gauge gains 40 degrees quickly.
Many 370Z drivers are reporting the average temps seem to drop when the engine has a few thousand miles on it. I have decided to change the factory oil at about 1200 miles and refill with the Nissan ester oil, and then run that to about the 5K mark the thoroughly break in the engine. At 5K miles I will switch to Redline 5-30W. I don't plan on tracking the car so am not concerned with oil temps reaching the critical zone. If you are planning on competing with the car or playing speed racer on back roads, add an oil cooler. If not, I wouldn't worry about it but use a good synthetic one way or another.
 
Just as a point of reference, my restored to stock 1965 Volkswagen Beetle typically runs oil temps consistently around 220 degrees F and that is considered very typical. Many aircooled VW owner's report oil temperature excursions into the 240 degree F territory. The factory specified lubrication back in the day was straight 30 weight HD mineral oil and 2000 mile OCIs. So, given a modern ester based synthetic lubricant and modern additive package I wouldn't be overly concerned, though I'd be more conservative on the OCI.

That said, because I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy I'd probably consider the addition of an external oil cooler. I would be careful though not to go overboard and get the oil temperature too low. If you are going to the track with the car (or like to drive really aggressively) I'd say the oil cooler would be a definite requirement.
 
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So, me keeping my RPMs at 3K for about 50 minutes/day where the car is always in low boost is probably running pretty hot, but is it too hot? I dont have any way to read oil temps, but am hoping this will help mitigate the valve deposits from direct injection. My logic to stay with a 40wt oil with higher HTHS was based on the oil temps likely seen. Id assume if this was an issue for the oil my UOAs would be showing high Ox for the OCI.
 
Hi,
davidyan - use the lubricant recommended by the engine's Manufacturer. If you wish to change to a lubricant that will handle your temperature "fears" use M1 0W-40 - it is well tested in "charged" engines and in racing circles
 
Originally Posted By: hounddog
2009 Dodge Hemi towing a small fifth wheel rv oil temps at or near 225.Non towing its in the 205 range after 50 miles of driving.
My 2009 Ram with Hemi runs the same.

Our 2009 SRT8 Challenger runs around 228 - 235.
 
Let the dealer do all the work while you are in warranty 'cause you may have a claim in the future.
 
I've seen 300 degrees in my 6.1 at track days, but rarely over 230-240 in spirited street driving.

No problem for a good synth.

I use Amsoil 15w-50 racing formula.
 
Originally Posted By: davidyan



My questions:

- is 240 - 260F normal? Should I be concerned?



My friends BMW 335i sees those temps just sitting in traffic on a 70F day. His will peg at 300F if you start pounding it. IIRC the 335i goes into reduced power mode at 330F. If you are running a good synthetic, I would not worry too much.

On another note, is the new Nissan VVEL system similar to BMW Valvetronic, as it controls the "throttle" through intake valve lift?
 
Originally Posted By: wolfc70
Originally Posted By: davidyan



My questions:

- is 240 - 260F normal? Should I be concerned?



My friends BMW 335i sees those temps just sitting in traffic on a 70F day. His will peg at 300F if you start pounding it. IIRC the 335i goes into reduced power mode at 330F. If you are running a good synthetic, I would not worry too much.

On another note, is the new Nissan VVEL system similar to BMW Valvetronic, as it controls the "throttle" through intake valve lift?

Woah! Camless?
 
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