'97 Toyota Tacoma, SCed 3.4L, AMSOIL SSO, 10K

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: robertcope
Originally Posted By: Pablo
You have a point. I assumed the Manganese came from heavy use of fuel additives ie "Octane boosters".


Oh, you know what, that may be the case. When I first got the truck, it pinged like crazy under load. I can't recall what brand of booster I used (I want to say Lucas, but... I'd have to go look it up), but I did put some in for a few tanks to see if it helped the pinging. As it turns out, that's a common issue with he TRD SC setup, and you can either upgrade injectors and whatnot or just drive it easier at low RPM... apparently the ECU won't retard timing until after 2500rpm. Some day I'll do the fuel upgrades.

robert


That sounds hokey, you can't just get it tuned? Pinging = bad.

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
That sounds hokey, you can't just get it tuned? Pinging = bad.


Get it tuned... with new injectors and ECU and whatanot? Yes, that is a solution, like I said. Sadly, that's about $1000 that I'd rather spend on other things, like my VW! Some day I'm sure I'll do it. Alternatively, just don't let the boost come on too hard at low RPMs. I agree it is sad (or hokey) that Toyota released the SC kit with such a flaw.

robert

 

[Gary Allan]

He might not be able to tune out the light knock. I don't know how tunable 'yoda PCM/ECU's are. I guess he could try a colder plug.


If Blackstone gives you whacked numbers, give them a call. There's a reason when stuff doesn't add up and that's an extreme discrepancy for any "batch variance". They need to know this. They'll retest the sample and assure that all protocols and calibrations are correct by their equipments standards.

 

[pickled]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
They need to know this. They'll retest the sample and hopefully assure that all protocols and calibrations are correct by their equipments standards.


Sorry Gary I had to add something to your post...

 

[Gary Allan]

Oh (imagine me just sitting there - in a "sitting on the dock in the bay" type moment) ..no problem ..feel free ..anytime. ( insert the whistling part of the song HERE)... (where's my Jaa-mA-can spleef, mon?)

 

[pickled]

LOL yo spleef is in yo lap mon! Yo mus be trippin mon!

 

[JohnBrowning]

One thing to keep in mind is that depending on the previous oils and the level of dirt could be getting some masking and some additive plateup! The combination of the two could be skewing things in a major way. For all we know this truck might well have been maintained by Jiffy lube and might have had 7000+ mile oil changes. You know their are people with high end sports cars and such that are not car guys. I have seen hot 45 year bleach blond cougars in ZR1 Corvetes at Jiffy Lube! I kid you not! THey never pop the hood and they drive them not much harder then they would drive a Tahoe so they go cheap they want to the sex appeal of the car and look not so much the performance! So if this thing has been feed bulk dino 5W30 for 127K with the super charger on it their could be a lot of junk in this thing! On top of that while I am sure the boost is less then 9psi I would imagine that is enough to cause a little bit more plating or uptake of additives just due to the new chemistry. M1 0W40 if placed in a a well running but high milage engine that has been run on dino often looks weak in the knees the first time but the second UOA normaly makes up for it. A lot of is riding on how many deposits are in this engine and any previous issues like blown head gasket or leaking supercharger to intale seal etc.....

I have to plead ignorance on this next portion. Does this super charger share the crank case oil or does it have it's own supply like the Eaton Units GM use's???? I know these are not Eaton units they make the screws but some company out in California makes the rest of the houseing for TRD. If it does use it's own supply of oil you will need to get more. It is supposed to be drained and refilled I think ever 30K if my memory is right. GM used to sell an 8 once bottle of the super charger oil that Eaton made for them dirt cheap so that is where I would go is to a GM dealership and just ask for the Super Charger oil for the Super charged Buick 3.8L.Almost no one ever changes their oil when they should. IF on the other hand it shares the engine oil that would explain a lot of the missing additives.

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I guess he could try a colder plug.


I've done that already...

robert

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
I have to plead ignorance on this next portion. Does this super charger share the crank case oil or does it have it's own supply like the Eaton Units GM use's???


This is 1st gen TRD, which is an Eaton M62 supercharger. It has its own oil supply which is supposed to be good for 100K miles. I'm ashamed to admit that I have not yet changed it, even though the unit has just at 100K on it. The oil isn't as easy to change as the newer generations are -- you have to pull the unit completely off. I wish that I had records for maintenance on it. Since I don't, my plan is to pull it off and send it to Magnuson to have it rebuilt. I was planning to do that at the same time I did the URD injector/ecu/etc upgrades, actually.

If you're really interested, there's some good info here:

TRD Supercharger Kit
TRD Supercharger Maintenance
URD Fuel/Timing Upgrade

robert

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: robertcope
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I guess he could try a colder plug.


I've done that already...

robert


Figures

I don't think you can "normally" engineer out that low speed knock. You should have more than enough pulse width available in the stock injectors under lower speed usage. That is, I don't see how bigger injectors will solve this problem at that time. It would work if you were leaning out at upper rpm levels due to lack of capacity.

Or so I reason.

 

[JAG]

I'd use BG 44K fuel system cleaner to clean off some carbon on the piston tops, which if present would increase the tendency for knocking to occur. This product is pricey but works very well.

 

[3Toyotas]

What kind of fuel are you running?

Do you know that TRD supercharged engines require the use of premium fuel? If it's not used, it will run poorly and ping like crazy.

Just a thought.

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
What kind of fuel are you running?

Do you know that TRD supercharged engines require the use of premium fuel? If it's not used, it will run poorly and ping like crazy.


I prefer Shell fuels, though I guess I don't have much hard evidence that they're any better than other brands.

Yes, I'm aware that premium is a requirement. Like I said, low-RPM pinging is a well-known issue. Also, putting octane booster into anything other than premium fuel would be silly. I guess it still doesn't hurt to ask

robert

 

[ARB1977]

Why kind of fuel system are you running? If your running the 7th injector alot of folks at TTORA and Custom Tacos say thats not enough. You need to do fuel upgrades...that would eliminate the need for fuel octane booster and make your SC much more reliable. URD is a huge supplier for Toyota SC fuel upgrades.

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: ARB1977
Why kind of fuel system are you running? If your running the 7th injector alot of folks at TTORA and Custom Tacos say thats not enough. You need to do fuel upgrades...that would eliminate the need for fuel octane booster and make your SC much more reliable. URD is a huge supplier for Toyota SC fuel upgrades.


Yup, I've mentioned the need for upgrades three times now. I even posted a link to the URD kit in a previous post. Some day I'll do the upgrade, but for now I'm happy putting that money into other things. It's pretty easy NOT to induce the pinging by altering driving style. Makes it harder to let anyone borrow the vehicle, but I'll live.

robert

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Yup, I've mentioned the need for upgrades three times now.


You always get extra service here, Robert. Just making sure all of your ducks are in a row

 

[mikeg5]

10K for an SC'd taco is pretty good. that oil did well. the 3.4's are very easy on oil. shell fuels rock. they are about the only fuel that doesnt "ping" in my taco and i keep her insides very clean. BG's 44k works every well. also GM's top end cleaner works well too. far better than seafoam imo.

 

[Jaymus]

I think you need to upgrade your fuel injectors and get a tune.

Sorry, figured the upgrades should have been mentioned for a 4th time.

Do they sell AFC's for your trucks? I used to have one in a 1991 Dodge Stealth R/T that was highly modified with larger injectors/pump/and I won't name all about the turbos etc. etc. etc..... etc.

Pretty much, it just tricks your computer into thinking it has original injectors but you control the flow in the computer's eyes... I'm not going to explain it. I'm just saying it could be a cheap fix. I believe they were like $300 or something. Wow, it's been too long ago for me to remember the prices of all that stuff.

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: Jaymus
Sorry, figured the upgrades should have been mentioned for a 4th time.
...
Do they sell AFC's for your trucks?
...
Pretty much, it just tricks your computer into thinking it has original injectors but you control the flow in the computer's eyes... I'm not going to explain it.


I'll admit was grumpy and rude to complain about the multiple offerings of advise. Shame on me.

I think that part of the URD solution does pretty much what the AFC you describe does; I think it changes the data being sent from the oxygen sensor. The problem, as I understand it, is that the stock injectors either just can't flow enough fuel or have to operate at too high off a duty cycle to function well.

robert

 

[OVERKILL]

The AFC thing sounds like something many people used to use in the 5.0L Mustang world, a "calibrated" MAF, which allowed the ECM to think everything was stock, even though you've put larger injectors in it. It "tricked" the logic of the ECM, but issues with pinging and the like did occur, because the load tables were not calibrated correctly due to the nature of how the device operated.

The RIGHT way to do this, if the stock injectors are of adequate capacity and the ping is timing related would be to use something like what we have in the Ford world, which is a chip or tuning device from SCT, which talks to your ECM and allows you to change the parameters. That way, you could pull out the low-RPM timing, and eliminate the ping.