Tie-rod end stud nut torque spec; important?

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I was having a conversation with a few people about my tie-rod ends and told them that the Haynes manual spec torque on the stud nut was 27 lbs-ft. They told me just tighten it down very tight. What would be the best thing to do? thx.
 
That sounds about right. I'd go with the torque spec.

I've never needed to use a crowfoot to torque a tie-rod, though maybe some designs require it.
 
No offense intended, but if you do not know what 27 ft-lbs feels like, you should not be wrenching on cars.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
No offense intended, but if you do not know what 27 ft-lbs feels like, you should not be wrenching on cars.


And why is that? A torque wrench or two is a very good investment for any shade tree mechanic. Better to have the correct tool for the job.
 
Originally Posted By: Junior
Originally Posted By: The Critic
No offense intended, but if you do not know what 27 ft-lbs feels like, you should not be wrenching on cars.


And why is that? A torque wrench or two is a very good investment for any shade tree mechanic. Better to have the correct tool for the job.

I own torque wrenches and I use them. However, if a person does not know what 27 ft-lbs feels like, they should not be wrenching on cars. Knowing what 27 ft-lbs feels like (or whatever you are torquing to) is critical in case of a torque wrench failure.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
No offense intended, but if you do not know what 27 ft-lbs feels like, you should not be wrenching on cars.


No offense intended, but anybody who claims they are a human click wrench is a fool and talking out his a hole.
 
Originally Posted By: Junior
Originally Posted By: The Critic
No offense intended, but if you do not know what 27 ft-lbs feels like, you should not be wrenching on cars.


And why is that? A torque wrench or two is a very good investment for any shade tree mechanic. Better to have the correct tool for the job.


Yes, ALWAYS use a torque wrench and don't listen to this dude. He's talking out his bum. In fact you should have 3 to cover the whole range. 1 big one for axle nut. One in the middle say 10-150 ft-lbs. Then one for inch pounds.

Don't ever guestimate. Only hicks do that sort of stuff.
 
Well, he does have a valid point. Anybody wrenching on the car needs to be able to differentiate between

1) How tight spark plug should be ~15 ft-lb
2) How tight lug nut should be ~80 ft-lb
3) Everything else ~40 ft-lb

*without* absolutely needing a torque wrench. Obviously, there are special cases where a torque wrench is a must but majority of car repairs can be done without torque wrench.

To take this particular tie-rod end case, ff instead of 27 ft-lb, it was torqued to 40 ft-lb, nothing bad will happen. On the other hand if it was torqued to 15 ft-lb, there will be a disaster waiting and if it was tried to torque to 80 ft-lb, the threads might get stripped. So, you don't need to know how 27 lb-ft feels like but you better know that it is in between a spark-plug and a lug nut. If you can't, you should not be wrenching on cars.

- Vikas
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
No offense intended, but if you do not know what 27 ft-lbs feels like, you should not be wrenching on cars.


I know what 27.5 ft-lb feels like, do I win??
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But seriously, are you serious????? Then would you care to explain why mechanics with years of experiance that wrench on cars day-in-day-out still use torque wrenches? And you say that, as a shade tree mechanic, you know how 27 ft-lb fells like???? Give me a break
lol.gif


I don't use a torque wrench for every single bolt and nut and I have a general feel of how tight things should be, so I probably could put this tie rod between 25-35, but to say that if you don't know how 27 ft-lb feels, you shouldn't be wrenching is ridicuolus.
 
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The correct torque is important,if it wasn't why even bother with specs,instead just say tighten until almost busted.

Granted there are many parts than can be done by experienced "feel" but critical parts must be torqued to the proper specs,these include brakes,wheels,suspension,critical drive train components and all engine parts except maybe accessory items.

If the car uses an aluminum knuckle its an absolute must that the correct spec be adhered to.They can develop hairline cracks or spit if wrenched on to hard leading to a catastrophic failure.

We have 2000 chevrolet Venture here with a split in the tie rod area of the knuckle,some tire and alignment shop put the new tie rod end on with an impact.Now it needs a new knuckle.

IMO you cant do yourself any bigger favor than owning a few quality torque wrenches if your going to be doing your own wrenching.
Also google for the effects of lubricants,thread lockers,extension bars etc and how they effect torque.
 
When I was younger, I practiced tighting a nut and check with a torque wrench and got quite good at getinng to + or - 15%. Not as good today for sure and I use a torque wrench on critical items like cyl heads, brake parts. 27 ft/lbs is a good snug with a 10 inch wrench.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Well, he does have a valid point. Anybody wrenching on the car needs to be able to differentiate between

1) How tight spark plug should be ~15 ft-lb
2) How tight lug nut should be ~80 ft-lb
3) Everything else ~40 ft-lb

*without* absolutely needing a torque wrench. Obviously, there are special cases where a torque wrench is a must but majority of car repairs can be done without torque wrench.

To take this particular tie-rod end case, ff instead of 27 ft-lb, it was torqued to 40 ft-lb, nothing bad will happen. On the other hand if it was torqued to 15 ft-lb, there will be a disaster waiting and if it was tried to torque to 80 ft-lb, the threads might get stripped. So, you don't need to know how 27 lb-ft feels like but you better know that it is in between a spark-plug and a lug nut. If you can't, you should not be wrenching on cars.

- Vikas


Torque and how it is used in bolted joints in greatly misunderstood. The clamp load is what is important but most of us don't have the equipment required to determine the clamp load so we must resort to a torque tension value. In reality +- 15% torque value can easily result in +- 50% clamp load.

So being 15% away from the specified torque can be way worse than you think. Apply oil or anti seize where you were not supposed to an it gets even worse.
 
27 sounds light. It is probably just fine, but that is nothing on a suspension component.
If I were replacing them , I would normally tighten them more, unless I had a good reason. By hand I guess 50-60 is what I would do.
I have seen many problems with too loose, but not too tight.
Sure, you can go crazy and break stuff [Not recommended!].
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Well, he does have a valid point. Anybody wrenching on the car needs to be able to differentiate between

1) How tight spark plug should be ~15 ft-lb
2) How tight lug nut should be ~80 ft-lb
3) Everything else ~40 ft-lb

*without* absolutely needing a torque wrench. Obviously, there are special cases where a torque wrench is a must but majority of car repairs can be done without torque wrench.

To take this particular tie-rod end case, ff instead of 27 ft-lb, it was torqued to 40 ft-lb, nothing bad will happen.


Sure, majority of anything CAN be done without the right tools. But if you have the tools why wouldn't you use them? If you are talking about the tie rod ball joint castle nut, yes something bad will happen. They are specifically NOT meant to be over-torqued.

Once again, NOBODY is a human click wrench - I don't care how skilled they think they are. Even if they did get it spot on, they surely won't be able to reproduce it in a consistent manner.

I can't tell the difference, and I certainly should be working on my own car.
 
We should also realize and integrate into our thinking that when a suspension nut [with a castle nut and cotter pin ] is tightened, the recommended procedure is to FURTHER tighten it to align it, and NEVER loosen it.

This means it will always be tighter than the given spec.

This is why I said tighten it more - this is how it works out in real life.
 
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I forgot that detail too Mechtech - it's explained in the FSM. There's an initial lower torque value they give, then they say you additionally move it (clockwise) to get the cotter pin to line up, but they also say do not exceed so and so torque in bold letters.

My guess is the over torqing impedes the proper free rotating of the ball joint.
 
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