http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001496;p=2
"Here are a few quotes from Terry Dyson on Redline:
POE bases are more expensive , thus the PAO and others less costly are used in the oils you list above. Amsoils costs are artificially bumped up by the marketing technique not just the ingredients. I am seeing a positive trend in Amsoil that I hope remains in that they are reformulating to bring back the solvency of the 80's!
Both Amsoils and Redlines tech departments are questionable when it comes to sharing fact about analysis results and formulations( mostly through ignorance I suspect and concern for proprietary issues).
If you can derive a TBN level out of a oil that is spent of adds then that says the base oils are naturally protecting against acidity.RL does that.
RL is mostly POE with a mix of PAO and others and still has reserve acid neutralization capabilty based on every test posted here.
RL starts at a lower TBN like Schaeffers but is more stable in retention and the rate of degredation. Effective TBN and rate of degredation is more important than just looking at a scaled digit on a report, you've got to read/intepret the whole result.
RL shear rates based on proprietary independent lab tests are better than any available OTS motor oils that I have seen, bar none.
For you proof, ASTM D 5275 on RL 10w-30 12/12/2000 = 1.3%
Amsoil ATM = 6.81%
M1 Advanced = 0 % can't get this anymore
M1 Tri Syn = 0.78% can't get this anymore
Would be happy to update those values for the newest of these oils for $5000.
One reason that the oils like M1"look" good is that they do NOT have the natural solvency that A POE or Diester based oil does thus will chemically bypass the carbon deposits that may be embedded internally.
Reason Auto-RX works so well for any engine and any oil that has been used.
GC is using a PAO blend with some German bases that also are very lubricious and that is under the microscope right now for paying customers."
and,
"I'm gonna give you guys some gold here, take note.
I at one time was of the opinion that the article from LE espoused about RL motor oils.
Curtis are you pulling teeth here or "noodling" for data ?
On lubrizols issues with moly/RL you must remember that the chemist for Redline Roy Howell left Lubrizol for RL so there may be some sour grapes going on with their corporate take on his theories.
Note too that if lubrizol is correct then I think Roy would be intimately knowledgeable about the issues.
Since he still builds a fine oil for RL I doubt that Lubrizol is right on this one.
On deeper examination I found in independent ( blinded) testing Dec 2000 ,that the soluble moly that is used is VERY oxdiatively and thermally stable in the oils.Just like it is in Schaeffers products.
During the same tests( all 10w-30 unless noted) we found that On the D 4742 TFOUT:
Redline exceeded > 300 minutes.
Amsoil ATM was 160 min
Amsoil XL 7500 288 min
Amsoil AME 15w-40 182 min
M1 all formulas exceeded 300 min no supersyn tested.
Schaeffers 7000 blend >300min I love this oil for the money.
Rotella T 15w-40 182 min
Schaeffers moly bond 15w-40 223 min
I'm giving BITOG thousands of $ worth of blinded/independent testing here to show that the total formulation is the key on these oils.
All which do well in many applications.
All in all a good quality UOA with proper interpretation and consult with the customer will tell more than these bench tests splitting hairs on one or two aspects of a lubricant. Now if you have access to both UOA's and Bench testing then you have something to compare to.
On Oxidation resistance...... add a little Lube Control to the test oil and blow the TFOUT/RBOT away. No matter the quality of the oil....
Note too that some bases of oils used in Redline, NEO and some Amsoil formulations will artificially show poor TFOUT/RBOT test results alone as a base oil, when in actual practice and properly formulated finished chemistry they are much more resistant over the long haul than some of the petroleum based oils on the bench.
As far as being stable in the presence of water or attracting water and the resultant acidic attack ....I haven't seen that issue with Redline at all."
And this quote from TooSlick:
"I've said this before, but if I was to use something besides Amsoil in my two Audis', it would be the Redline 10w-30 in the 2002 TT roadster and their 10w-40 or 20w-50 in my old Audi 100 sedan. I'd probably run the Redline MT-90 gear lube in the TT as well ....
I really like the Redline; provided you don't extend drain intervals past 10,000 miles. It's very rare to see a Redline sample that is really trashed or thickens out of grade."
TooSlick is the person who convinced that Amsoil made some great products, and the person I will deal with when I order Amsoil.
