A few days ago RWEST said that it's easy to become obsessed about oil. I think he's right. Anyway I just finished reading a post on "Interesting Articles" in this forum that brings up an idea that says changing your oil too often can be bad for your engine. The post is called ,"used oil better than new" It bears reading. Now that I've seen that there is a huge number of folks out there that understand these things, I would be really interested to see what you think. Is this what you would call OBSESSED?
Boulevard has another question about dirty oil.
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Some UOA's have shown a decrease in wear metal rate in the second half of an OCI. So some believe that fresh oil causes more wear that used. Personally, I think it's hogwash. I believe removing contaminants as much as possible is best for any mechanical machine. So I am all about shorter OCI's.
Hogwash indeed!
I have always thought that the initial wear was from cold oil hitting hot metal parts. After you drain hot 200 degree oil, you pour in new oil that is closer to room temperature. When hot steel is suddenly cooled it will shrink and the sizes of the parts change. I always cringe when I hear that "creak" after adding new oil. It is the sound of bare metal against bare metal.
I would like to do a test where the old oil is drained from a car/bike that has not been warmed up prior to the oil change. Sure, you will not get all of the old oil out but according to the article old oil is good for the engine.
I have always thought that the initial wear was from cold oil hitting hot metal parts. After you drain hot 200 degree oil, you pour in new oil that is closer to room temperature. When hot steel is suddenly cooled it will shrink and the sizes of the parts change. I always cringe when I hear that "creak" after adding new oil. It is the sound of bare metal against bare metal.
I would like to do a test where the old oil is drained from a car/bike that has not been warmed up prior to the oil change. Sure, you will not get all of the old oil out but according to the article old oil is good for the engine.
dnewton3
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There is an SAE paper from some years ago by Ford/Connoco that documented higher wear rates shortly after fresh OCIs.
That being said, I think the obsession of oils/filter changes gets blown way out of proportion, even for a site like this ...
Today's engines and oils are so darn good that the drive train will often far outlast the desire to own said vehicle. Routine PM plans and decent quality dino oil/fitlers are all that is needed to make an engine last a long, long time.
Worrying about cold oil/hot starts, etc is fun for discussion, but it's not of practical concern in the real world.
That being said, I think the obsession of oils/filter changes gets blown way out of proportion, even for a site like this ...
Today's engines and oils are so darn good that the drive train will often far outlast the desire to own said vehicle. Routine PM plans and decent quality dino oil/fitlers are all that is needed to make an engine last a long, long time.
Worrying about cold oil/hot starts, etc is fun for discussion, but it's not of practical concern in the real world.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
There is an SAE paper from some years ago by Ford/Connoco that documented higher wear rates shortly after fresh OCIs.
That being said, I think the obsession of oils/filter changes gets blown way out of proportion, even for a site like this ...
Today's engines and oils are so darn good that the drive train will often far outlast the desire to own said vehicle. Routine PM plans and decent quality dino oil/fitlers are all that is needed to make an engine last a long, long time.
Worrying about cold oil/hot starts, etc is fun for discussion, but it's not of practical concern in the real world.
Waaaaay too much common sense bud!
There is an SAE paper from some years ago by Ford/Connoco that documented higher wear rates shortly after fresh OCIs.
That being said, I think the obsession of oils/filter changes gets blown way out of proportion, even for a site like this ...
Today's engines and oils are so darn good that the drive train will often far outlast the desire to own said vehicle. Routine PM plans and decent quality dino oil/fitlers are all that is needed to make an engine last a long, long time.
Worrying about cold oil/hot starts, etc is fun for discussion, but it's not of practical concern in the real world.
Waaaaay too much common sense bud!
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
There is an SAE paper from some years ago by Ford/Connoco that documented higher wear rates shortly after fresh OCIs.
There is also a school of thought that most people do NOT pre-oil an oil filter and the initial start after a fresh oil change generates the additional wear metals as the engine waits to come up to pressure and the parts suffer some lubrication starvation. Touche`
There is an SAE paper from some years ago by Ford/Connoco that documented higher wear rates shortly after fresh OCIs.
There is also a school of thought that most people do NOT pre-oil an oil filter and the initial start after a fresh oil change generates the additional wear metals as the engine waits to come up to pressure and the parts suffer some lubrication starvation. Touche`
I know of one example where dirty oil provided extremely good lubrication quality. This is a true story.
A few years ago, my neighbour pulled into his drive way and asked me why his '89 Mazda 626 engine was making so much noise and blowing blue smoke. I asked him if he'd checked his oil lately. He said "I never check it. It's the wife's car." I went over and pulled the dip stick. It showed NOTHING. I went to my garage and grabbed a quart of oil. I put it in. Still nothing showing. After adding three quarts, it finally showed on the dip stick. In utter amazement, I asked the guy when was the oil last changed? He yelled into the house to ask his wife. Her reply was "What oil changed? Now, I cannot be certain but, from the information provided from the couple and the fact that the engine was all but out of oil, I would not be surprised if the engine had not seen an oil change after their first year of dealership service ran out. Considering that this occurred around 2001, I'd say the car ran close to ten years on the same oil. So, who knows? Maybe dirty oil does have some "special" lubrication properties.
And by the way, their replacement car, a 2002 Honda Accord with less than 100K on it is now burning oil!!!!!! Hard to believe that a properly maintained Honda engine would burn oil with less than 100K on it...... Some people just don't learn.
A few years ago, my neighbour pulled into his drive way and asked me why his '89 Mazda 626 engine was making so much noise and blowing blue smoke. I asked him if he'd checked his oil lately. He said "I never check it. It's the wife's car." I went over and pulled the dip stick. It showed NOTHING. I went to my garage and grabbed a quart of oil. I put it in. Still nothing showing. After adding three quarts, it finally showed on the dip stick. In utter amazement, I asked the guy when was the oil last changed? He yelled into the house to ask his wife. Her reply was "What oil changed? Now, I cannot be certain but, from the information provided from the couple and the fact that the engine was all but out of oil, I would not be surprised if the engine had not seen an oil change after their first year of dealership service ran out. Considering that this occurred around 2001, I'd say the car ran close to ten years on the same oil. So, who knows? Maybe dirty oil does have some "special" lubrication properties.
And by the way, their replacement car, a 2002 Honda Accord with less than 100K on it is now burning oil!!!!!! Hard to believe that a properly maintained Honda engine would burn oil with less than 100K on it...... Some people just don't learn.
Where can I learn how to read the used oil analysis. I'm picking up bits and pieces but still don't understand what is high,low normal or abnormal, or when people say the oil is still in grade. I hate to ask ,but still trying to put all these things together. Thanks!
Originally Posted By: boulevard
Where can I learn how to read the used oil analysis. I'm picking up bits and pieces but still don't understand what is high,low normal or abnormal, or when people say the oil is still in grade. I hate to ask ,but still trying to put all these things together. Thanks!
Cheat sheet here.
Where can I learn how to read the used oil analysis. I'm picking up bits and pieces but still don't understand what is high,low normal or abnormal, or when people say the oil is still in grade. I hate to ask ,but still trying to put all these things together. Thanks!
Cheat sheet here.
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