Sludge, Oil Analysis and Synthetic Oil

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AccordMDX

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Hi!
This is my first post on the forum.

After about 50k and 75k miles on my cars('01 MDX and '99 Accord), this is the first time I have put synthetic oil(Mobil1) and a decent filter(Puro Prem+) in them, otherwise I have always been using regular oil and filter - either oem or other aftermarket, whatever the service shop would be using which I believe usually would the cheapest available to them.

I will be doing on oil analysis on both the cars shortly. I'd like to know if an oil analysis has anything in it that can indicate if there is sludge in the engine or not ?

Secondly, IF there is indeed sludge in the engine and I just keep using synthetic oil, will it remove/disolve the sludge or do I need to do anything about it - like add additives or detergents that would actually take care of it.

Thanks!
 
(2)nope. Motor oil, even in Synthetic grade oil, possess excellent properties in maintaining the cleanliness of the oil but not dissolve any pre-existing sludge already formed/settled inside the engine.

Your best bet is to (a) run cleaners such as AutoRx or Seafoam or (b) mechanically/manually remove them (using a scraper and remove the valve cover is a good way).
 
All PCMO's will disperse sludge and varnish when newly installed if you do a 2-3K drain they will clean up an engine just takes time.

People here love AutoRx or Seafoam. Seafoam is a mineral spirts, kerosene, Iso Propyl Alcohol blend I would just add in a quart of kerosene and run down for a coffee then drian and re fill with a new filter.

AutoRx is well thought of here (I do know of the additive system and think it could use better chemistry) It appears to work well.

Check it out I'm sure you will get a lot of answers to this post with a lot of opinions.

You may want to start with a UOA's to see whats in there first.
bruce
 
I doubt you have any sludge if you changed your oil every 3-6k miles. How often did you change or have the oil changed?
Regular oils(we usually call them "dinos") protect and prevent sludge quite well if changed on a regular basis. Also, even the worst of filters, filter quite well, they just have a slighty higher chance of failing. So with that said, your cars should really be in good shape if they were maintained well, even with cheap materials.
 
What can you say about this picture?

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Almost all synthetic oils will clean up some or most or all of the sludge due to their advanced additives. Amsoil makea a flush to use prior to converting to their synthetic oil, but they also say their oil will clean up the engine. If I suspected sludge and went to synthetic oil, then I might only run the first load of synthetic oil 5K or so.
 
Hi,
626- some more info please - mileage, use, oil type used and etc.

Bruce makes some good points and I, like him, firmly believe in judicious use of kerosine. I would a short OCI using a CI-4 HDEO

Doug
 
Hey 626, that be a Saturn engine right?

I concur with Doug Hillary, use a higher detergent oil, shorten the OCI's, but try using a good motor flush first, just to get rid of the extra junk that I see.
 
Thank you for all the responses!

I am the first owner of the '99 Accord and oil changes on were very regular. I dont think I have ever gone above 4-4.5k max without changing oil. I bought the mdx used so I cant say for sure about the oci on that one.

I will check out the AutoRx and Seafoam and will have a shop open the valve cover to see whats going on inside. I dont expect anything too terrible but I do want get a good "health check" done on the engine(hence the oil analysis) and "clean it up" if needed.
 
Hello AccordMDX !

I have an '00 Honda Odyssey, V6, 3.5L, VTEC that I bought new. It is probably very similar to your engines. I had my oil & filter changed every 3 months / 3750 miles at the dealer for the first 55K miles using Vavoline 5W-30 Conventional oil. This is mainly an in-town, short-trip vehicle, although we also take summer trips. Overall, my policy was to change the oil whenever it "looked dirty", before a long trip, before a season change, etc, so I was changing oil A LOT. Note that I plan to keep this vehicle for a long time...

You may be aware that with Hondas you can look down the oil fill hole in the valve cover and see some of the mechanicals. I did this - this view of the engine (@55K miles) showed that it was pretty clean, in my opinion.

About 1.5 years ago (@55K miles), I switched to M1 5W-30 Synth, for various small reasons, with the ultimate goal of changing the oil every 6 months. The 1st batch of M1 turned darker fairly quickly, and I changed it after 3 months for peace-of-mind. The 2nd batch stayed cleaner-looking longer, and I changed it after about 4.5 months. The 3rd batch stayed in for the full 6 months and stayed "honey-colored" for the whole duration. Another look into the oil-fill hole revealed that it was noticably cleaner looking, which surprised me since I did not think that it was dirty previously.

I have also had a similar experience with my '97 Camry that I switched to M1 at the same time. Note that this Camry has one of the so-called "Sludge Motors" that have been problematic.

My thoughts, given the above:

1) Any engine can sludge, but your engines do not have a history of sludging-up.

2) It sounds like you have taken very good care of your engines.

3) M1 Synth does clean engines. I don't know the chemistry, but after years of frequent oil changes with Conventional oil, I know that M1 has a cleaning component. It also is more stable and has a higher-temp tolerance, so it will not break-down as easily and thus will not contribute "dirt".

4) The UOA will give you peace-of-mind, but you probably do not need it. However, I know the value of peace-of mind and this analysis will show you if you have any contaminates such as antifreeze in your oil, which signal a mechanical repair.

5) ARX will be harmless, but you probably do not need it, so I question its benefit. Have you looked down the oil-fill hole? You may not need to take the valve cover off or do an ARX treatment to get the information that you really need!

Best Wishes as you Motor Along!
 
Hi "626" and "Great"!

I am curious about the picture of the valve-train. What is the specific problem that you observe? It looks pretty clean to me! Even the "non-contact" areas have not accumulated any dirt, but just have a light amber coating on them. Granted this is not the "factory-new" look, but I really don't see any problem. I am interested in your further comments. Thanks!
 
SWS, I guess you've never seen a motor that's been consistently fed with a good quality synthetic.
And I'm sure you've never seen one that's been basically raised on RedLine.
I've been using RedLine exclusively in one of my cars since the 10K mi mark.
It now has over 70K miles on the odo and the valve train looks squeaky clean.
Not a hint of sludge, garnish or even coating. It's totally clean like it's just been put together.
I only wish I had my digital camera when I took the cover off. I might try to take a picture through the oil fill neck.

BTW the valve train in the picture looks pretty bad. Don't you see the sludge spots?
It's only a matter of time if not already when the small oil passages will start becoming restrictive.
 
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Here's a pic of the suzuki swift I bought recently... it's a 2001, when I bought it had only 53,500 miles on it... THAT's a dirty engine.

I'm of the belief, that the previous owner, never changed the oil on this car, ever.

this pic is at aprox- 1000 miles into using Mobil 1 EP...

I have plenty of ARX waiting.. the next oil change will be with the recomended dose of ARX with supertech dino. ARX directions will be followed from there on out till things are clean...

certainly makes the picts above look like a spotless engine.
 
Hi Vad!

You are right! I am a relatively recent convert to Synth so I don't have much of an "calibrated eye" for what's good or bad. That's why I asked about the original picture (not mdocod's picture just above, which is clearly sludged).

No, I don't see the sludge spots that you refer to, can you point them out to me?

Thanks, SWS

BTW, I have an '03 Civic with 14K miles that I switched to M1 on the first oil change at 4000 miles. I change the oil every 6 months, and yes it does look pretty clean as I look through the oil-fill hole!
 
mdocod - WOW! I agree, looks like the oil was never changed. Did you manually remove any of that gunk? I think it will need lots of ARX! And maybe lots of filters? Would worry about plugging oil pick up screen too. Good luck.........
 
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