5w40 in high mileage engine

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Ok thanks Gary. Here's the deal:

- TopTec 4100: 8.26$ per liter (7.82$ per qt)
- Mobil 1: 9.56$ per liter (9.05$ per qt)

Is the Mobil 1 worth the difference? I think the TopTec is more than enough for my application. What more would bring the M1?
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Extending it to one year.


Sorry I didn't understand. What do you mean?

I can't use RX with Mobil 1 right?
 
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Correct. You don't want to use Auto-Rx with a PAO or Ester synthetic.

However, given the outstanding performance of M1 in the 5w-40 flavor, I think that you would be able to move your OCI out to one year as opposed to your 9month 15000km interval.

I wouldn't JUST buy an oil so I could use Auto-Rx ..as much as I truly admire the product for what I've seen it do.
 
I will probably stick to 15000km OCI as this is what Volvo recommends. Of course both oils can certainly do much more than that but the problem then is the oil filter. Extending the OCI would also require a better oil filter which I don't have.

My issue with the M1 5W40 is that since it's a full synthetic, if my 200k miles engine starts to leak because sludge has been removed from seals, I will not be able to use RX to recondition the seals. The engine is supposed to be clean but... By the way, is there any evidence the TopTec oil is not 100% synthetic? LM says "The combination of unconventional basic oils using synthetic technology,
together with the latest additive technology.....". Does it mean it is semi-synthetic?

So keeping 15000km OCI, for you the price difference between LM and M1 oil would justify the move to M1 5W40 then?
 
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...according to a document from Mobil 1 on Supersyn technology, the term "unconventional" when referring to an oil means synthetic. So the TopTec 4100 is likely to be a full synthetic oil as well, what would be more consistent with its ability to withstand extended OCI up to 30K km.

So one or the other, I shouldn't be able to use RX
frown.gif
 
After carefully looking (and trying to interprete...) Liqui-Moly website, it seems that the TopTec 4100 is indeed a semi-synthetic. Fully synthetic oils are advertised as "fully synthetic" in the technical sheets. TopTec is not advertised as such and the rest of the TopTec range falls in the hydrocracked semi-synthetic group.

Now in fact a semi-synthetic may be better for me compared to a full synthetic. I'm really scared about developing a leak by switching to full synthetic at 200K miles and Mobil 1 5W40 (fully synthetic) may thus not be the right move. Does it make sense to go with the TopTec for that reason?

By the way, I know that synthetic doesn't cause leaks but just make leaks apparent by removing false seals due to sludge. I have heard this is due to either:

- high detergency additives in synthetic oils
- synthetic particles have smaller size and hence more prone to leak in old seals

Where is the truth? Basically since the TopTec is also a high detergent oil (since it can be used in extended drain intervals), can it also start (ie reveal) a leak? My biggest fear is the rear main seal which is not leaking right now but is still stock with 200K miles and 12 years on it....

I'd go with the TopTec if it is safer for the seals.
 
I wouldn't mess around much considering the mileage of the vehicle. I'd stick with a 10W-40 from spring till fall and I'd use a 5W-40 during the cold season.

Why do you believe the engine is sludged to the point of having false seals? Do you notice any leaks? Oil consumption seems also normal.
 
I have a small leak on the front crankshaft seal right now that appeared AFTER switching from supposedly full synthetic 5W40 to 10W40 semi synthetic last year. However it will be fixed next week since I have to do the timing belt. I don't expect to have false seals but the RMS is quite old and I didn't always run synthetic oils so I cannot know for sure. I also have used RX in the past.

I did the move to 10W40 because I had a small oil consumption with the 5W40 but that was probably nothing. With the 10W40 I have some valve noises when cold, especially in winter but it's only for about 10 seconds.

My goal is really to get a year round oil and not change grade between summer and winter because I can get the oil in large containers only so I won't get 2 containers to play with. If a 5w40 is good for winter, it should also be good for summer since it's a 40 grade too. My real concern is starting a leak with a full synthetic...

When you say not messing too much, do you mean that I shouldn't switch to synthetic and use either the 5W40 or 10W40 in semi synthetic flavour?
 
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Top Tec 4100 5W-40 is a Group III oil. It is recommended by LM for your car's engine. If you are looking for a year-round oil, a 5W-40 is as close to ideal as you can get.

I suggested you should keep using a 10W-40 during the warm seasons, because it has worked well for you. Since you do not want to use a different viscosity during the cold season, I do believe that your are better off using a 5W-40 all year long, compared to using a 10W-40 all year long.
 
Originally Posted By: kilou
Group III means I can use it with ARX, right? Mobil1 is a group IV I guess.


I was told I did it all wrong when I used M1 5W-40 with A-Rx.
LOL.gif
 
To add some confusion, here is an answer from Liqui Moly:

"- TOP TEC 4100 5W-40 is a hydrocrach ore HC-Synthese-Technology oil. This is not semi synthetic, this oils are very close to fully synthetic oils!

- for your 1997 Volvo it´s better to use the fully synthetic oil like Synthoil High Tech 5W-40, because the TOP TEC 4100 5W-40 is a very modern motor oil for cars with Diesel-Particle-Filter and this oils are not always the best ones for engines without a Diesel-Particle--Filter!"

OK so LM recommends the TopTec 4100 for my engine on their website but the techguy at LM say their fully synthetic 5W40 would be better than the TopTec for my engine... It is true that the TopTec is also made for cars with diesel particle filters but does it make sense it's not the best for a petrol engine?
 
Originally Posted By: kilou
To add some confusion, here is an answer from Liqui Moly:

"- TOP TEC 4100 5W-40 is a hydrocrach ore HC-Synthese-Technology oil. This is not semi synthetic, this oils are very close to fully synthetic oils!


There's no confusion.

1. Full synthetic = Vollsynthese = Group IV and up

2. HC (hydrocracked) = HC Synthese = Group III oil
Whether or not a Group III oil is a full synthetic oil or not depends on where you are.
grin2.gif


3. Semisynthetic = TS = teilsynthetisch = a blend of mineral and synthetic oil (HC or fully synthetic)

4. Mineral oil = mineralisches Öl = Group I and Group II

I presume you read German:
http://www.motorlexikon.de/?I=4900
http://www.motorlexikon.de/?I=4901
 
Originally Posted By: kilou
- for your 1997 Volvo it´s better to use the fully synthetic oil like Synthoil High Tech 5W-40, because the TOP TEC 4100 5W-40 is a very modern motor oil for cars with Diesel-Particle-Filter and this oils are not always the best ones for engines without a Diesel-Particle--Filter!"


If your Volvo's engine has a flat tappet cam, I would agree with the above statement.
 
I suppose my engine has roller tappets since it has hydraulic valve lifters but I'm not sure about that (car is a 1997 Volvo S40). No adverse effect using these low SAPS oils on roller cams?
 
Originally Posted By: kilou
I suppose my engine has roller tappets since it has hydraulic valve lifters but I'm not sure about that (car is a 1997 Volvo S40).

My engine has flat tappet cams and hydraulic valve lifters. I don't know about your engine.

Quote:
No adverse effect using these low SAPS oils on roller cams?

That's what I believe, based on all that I have read. You may want to ask that question in a new thread.
 
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