Amsoil vs Biltema vs Castrol Edge

[Kjepphest]

ok, so i am in the middle of a project that was supposed to be small, and about oil filters and stuff, but soon became quite big. I am still kind of a novice when looking at these additive packages and all that, so i need a bit of help from you guys. Below is an element analysis of the following oils:
Amsoil 100% synthetic 5W-30
Biltema synthetic 5W-40
Castrol Edge 0W-40

So, i guess all of you know the Amsoil stuff. I bought it for my car to do a few filtration tests and stuff, and boy was it hard to come by over here in Norway (had to import from the UK)! anyways, it seems quite good so far. the Amsoil in the test is unused.

Next is a little something called Biltema. it is from a quite large company operating over here in scandinavia, and they specialise in "cheap" and sometimes [censored] auto and home improvement products. The Biltema oil in the test is about 1/5 the price of the Castrol. Biltema oil is unused for the test.

Last but not least is the Castrol Edge 0W-40 oil. It is amongst the most expensive oils one can get in the shops over here. This particular sample is USED. it has been in my engine for about 4500 kms and has been worked moderately. i guess moderately is kinda a relative expression here since the car is a Honda Integra Type R, and the oil has recieved quite a bit of beating. anyway, i will post up results on a unused sample as soon as i get one.

and here are the results ( i hope you get everything considering the written language):

Take a look at these results, and tell me what you think. especially i want you guys to take a look at the Biltema vs the Amsoil. there are certain things there i am a bit sceptical about... i will comment on those things later, when you have looked a bit, so that my opinions will not influence

by the way, i have also got particle counts for these samples, but i can reveal these later

thanks for all your help

 

[LargeCarManX2]

Let's see....

Biltema is a roll-off Europeon branch of Amsoil?

On a serious note....

Only the Used Oil Analysis of the two or three oils above at the same KM will show the real winner of the prize, YOUR BUSINESS!

 

[pickled]

I'm not a fan of that much Phosphorous (biltema) if this is going to be used in a gasoline vehicle with a catalyst. Was the Castrol bulk or something, because at 9 ppm of iron it wouldn't appear to be very clean to me either. What's up with the biltema's 40C viscosity? You are clearly looking at different grades of oil based on the viscosity differences cited.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: pickled
Was the Castrol bulk or something, because at 9 ppm of iron it wouldn't appear to be very clean to me either.

Castrol sample was a UOA, not a VOA.

 

[Kjepphest]

Originally Posted By: LargeCarManX2
Let's see....

Biltema is a roll-off Europeon branch of Amsoil?

On a serious note....

Only the Used Oil Analysis of the two or three oils above at the same KM will show the real winner of the prize, YOUR BUSINESS!


well, biltema is kind of just the cheapest of the cheap over here, and it (thankfully) has nothing to do with Amsoil.
i know that all these oils have different viscosity ratings and all that. i am just trying to figure out why the Biltema is so cheap. the biggest differences i see in the analysis (i will only compare amsoil and biltema since these are the unused ones), is the lack of Mo in the Biltema as well as a huge amount of Mg... whats up with the Mg anyway?

all these oils came from 4 or 5 litre canisters..

also, the amsoil in my engine now, will be analysed after 4500kms aswell, then we can compare

for your amusement, here are the results from the particle count:

anything else you guys want to comment on now?

btw, a little translation:
W1 = total particle count
W2 = average particle diameter
W3 = maximum diameter
W4 = cut/shear generated particles >20 micron
W5 = "glide" generated particles >20 micron
W6 = fatigue generated particles >20 micron
W7 = non-metallic particles >20 micron
W8 = unknown/unclassified
VANN = water
W9 = number of fibers

 

[Kjepphest]

so can anyone please help me with this? i am wondering about what you think about this Biltema oil...

mainly, why no Moly? and why so much Magnesium? are these related somehow?

 

[Pablo]

First of all - really awesome particulate numbers. What does that cost in Norway?

Biltema certainly is not a clean oil to start. You are comparing two very different oils. What more do you know about Biltema? What base oil? What "kind" of oil is it - ie what do they claim it should be used for?

It's a bit pointless, but allow me to give my opinion: Elemental analyses tells only a very limited picture about the oil. This VOA only tells us what is in solution in the oil at the element level and of course only selected metallic or semi-metallic elements. It tells us nothing of how the oil is constructed or the form these elements are even in. Nothing about organic additives, VII's, etc

Mo can be good as an AW additive but it's not the only additive that works. OTOH Mo can be somewhat of a multifunctional add. Mg is an additive, usual in a complex as a detergent. You can read all this stuff on BITOG:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=21&page=1 (find Molakule's threads)

 

[Kjepphest]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
First of all - really awesome particulate numbers. What does that cost in Norway?

Biltema certainly is not a clean oil to start. You are comparing two very different oils. What more do you know about Biltema? What base oil? What "kind" of oil is it - ie what do they claim it should be used for?

It's a bit pointless, but allow me to give my opinion: Elemental analyses tells only a very limited picture about the oil. This VOA only tells us what is in solution in the oil at the element level and of course only selected metallic or semi-metallic elements. It tells us nothing of how the oil is constructed or the form these elements are even in. Nothing about organic additives, VII's, etc

Mo can be good as an AW additive but it's not the only additive that works. OTOH Mo can be somewhat of a multifunctional add. Mg is an additive, usual in a complex as a detergent. You can read all this stuff on BITOG:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=21&page=1 (find Molakule's threads)


thank you very much for answering!

An analysis like this one usually costs about 60 bucks per sample i think. however, i have gotten in contact with this guy that works with this kind of stuff for industrial applications and such, and he has given me a couple of samples for free.

At first, my project was centered on engine filtering issues; i believe that OEM spec and most aftermarket oilfilters are pretty bad. especially if you care about your engine like me..
one thing led to the other, and now i am analyzing here and there, both filters and oils, counting particles and cutting open filter housings

Anyway, the plans for these oil samples are as follows:
-Run Castrol Edge 0W-40 with OEM filter for 4500km, and get the stuff analyzed. Compare with unused oil.
-Run Amsoil (ASL) 5W-30 with EaO filter for 4500km, and get the stuff analyzed. compare with unused oil.

now these two are at this time my primary objectives. I have about 2500kms to go before i deliver the Amsoil for testing.

I was also thinking " hey why is this Biltema stuff so cheap? Any catches?", so i went forward and analyzed their best oil aswell.
The biltema oil is the most "performance oriented" oil in their stock. infact it is their only synthetic one if i am not mistaken. I will find some more info on it for you tomorrow, but i am pretty sure it is a base/PAO blend thingy...

I am also thinking about analyzing Redline, Motul and Silkolene Esther-base oils to see how these fare aswell, i mean, i should be able to gather some info on wear from a element analysis, right?

I have quite the thread on a norwegian forum going on, but i thought i would wait with translating it and posting it here until i am all done..

any comments are of course appreciated

 

[greenaccord02]

Sounds pretty cool - really look forward to seeing the results! If I could get that kind of analysis done for sixty bucks done over here, I'd be all over it. For that quality of data it's a deal at twice the price.

 

[Kjepphest]

just got back the analysis results for the unused Castrol Edge Sport 0W-40.

here are charts with the unused one compared to the one that has been in my Integra Type R for 4500kms. filter is OEM Honda.

 

[Kjepphest]

results for Amsoil 5W-30 with EaO filter just came tru. about 4500km's and 30+ laps on the track. results are not exactly perfect i'm afraid..

anyone who smells a BHG, raise your hands...

well, there is one other possibility, i had this internal engine cleaning stuff done before the last oil change (flush aswell), and if i'm lucky, the Mg, K and Na values are just residues of soap and stuff...

everyone cross your fingers...

 

[Pablo]

What is this "internal engine cleaning stuff "?

What does SNITT mean?

Maybe (please) type the thing out in English and you will get more comments.

I will give you my typical advice: Run some low cost oil and low cost filter for a couple intervals and try again.

 

[Kjepphest]

well, the internal engine cleaning stuff is just this horrible fluid you pour into the dip stick hole (?) while the engine is running. it is supposed to clean out the engines internals by being in there for a few minutes. needless to say, i regretted doing it moments after i had begun pouring.. it is water based as far as i know. after i drained it (and the old oil), i flushed everything with another type of synthetic oil (in fact, the Biltema analysed earlier), before i poured on the Amsoil.
Anyway, i HOPE that cleaning agent is the reason for high values of magnesium, potassium and sodium in the sample..

SNITT just means "average". just disregard it

i will try to get it translated..

 

[Pablo]

Water based? Yikes. That could easily explain those element levels and the TBN!