Personal Ecore test with great results

[river_rat]

I have been concerned for some time about the tight fit of the element endcaps to the can on the ecore style (most new Super Techs, AC/Delcos, STPs, etc.) and how that might affect oil flow and pressure.

Today I put an STP S2870A of this design on my '69 VW van to test it, and the oil pressure is great. Maybe a little better than the K&N I had on there just before.
(The OP gauge is tapped after the filter.)

Now granted, this 47 HP, 4 cylinder air-cooled engine with 21mm oil pump gears probably doesn't pump the volume of a bigger engine--especially relative to the medium/large filter size it uses.
But still, this filter seems to flow just great in this application.

Apparently the fabric type endcaps edges do give way and allow a fair amout of oil into and through the filter. Perhaps my concerns about the Ecore design is unfounded.

 

[sw99]

A lot of testing went in to those filters and I have no worries about their functioning. Use them with confidence!

 

[Barkleymut]

47 screaming horses, good thing you never have to climb a hill in Iowa.

I am almost convinced that most oil filters are more than adequate as long as they are not orange.

 

[labman]

Even the orange may be good enough, but pay a premium price for junk?

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: river_rat

Today I put an STP S2870A of this design on my '69 VW van to test it, and the oil pressure is great. Maybe a little better than the K&N I had on there just before. (The OP gauge is tapped after the filter.)


So you're talking full hot oil and under what driving conditions?

Did you compare cold oil pressure at some cruise RPM somewhat above idle?

If the pump is not in pressure relief mode, than using any filter will show the same oil pressure after the filter under the same operating conditions (same oil viscosity, same engine RPM).

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
47 screaming horses, good thing you never have to climb a hill in Iowa.
Hee hee. Well, ya, we do have a few. It ain't mountains, but definitely some downshifting in places.

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa

So you're talking full hot oil and under what driving conditions?

Did you compare cold oil pressure at some cruise RPM somewhat above idle?

If the pump is not in pressure relief mode, than using any filter will show the same oil pressure after the filter under the same operating conditions (same oil viscosity, same engine RPM).

Ya. 60+ psi cold cruising. That's at ~30mph, and warmed up it was a bit over 40 psi. That's a little higher than it usually runs. Is that what you're asking?

I always use 20W-50 or 15W-50 this time of year. The pressure reliefs (there are two) One bypasses the oil cooler with cold oil, and the other at the end of the main gallery is for absolute high pressure limiting. The bores are approximately 13 mm, so even in relief mode the OP does climb above it's ~50 psi setting. At full-hot highway cruise, it runs about 10 psi/1000 rpm.
Anyway, the OP is comparing favorably to what it runs with K&N HP-2005, Purolator L20252, and WIX 51342(?)under similar conditions. These are 22 to 30 psi internal bypass setting filters. Since the remote filter is an add-on (no OF from the factory) I can't look up filter by model/year/engine, so I matched the Bosch 72150 recommended by the filter add-on kit for this application and I just pretend I have an '84 VW Scirocco when I look up filters for it.

I'm not sure I answered your question...let me know?

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: river_rat

Ya. 60+ psi cold cruising. That's at ~30mph, and warmed up it was a bit over 40 psi. That's a little higher than it usually runs. Is that what you're asking?

I always use 20W-50 or 15W-50 this time of year. The pressure reliefs (there are two) One bypasses the oil cooler with cold oil, and the other at the end of the main gallery is for absolute high pressure limiting. The bores are approximately 13 mm, so even in relief mode the OP does climb above it's ~50 psi setting. At full-hot highway cruise, it runs about 10 psi/1000 rpm.


I'm assuming the main gallery is the main supply pressure point for the entire engine? What's interesting, is that it sounds like the pressure relief valve is located after the filter in this setup (instead of between the pump and filter on most cars) ... can you clarify?

Originally Posted By: river_rat
Anyway, the OP is comparing favorably to what it runs with K&N HP-2005, Purolator L20252, and WIX 51342(?)under similar conditions. These are 22 to 30 psi internal bypass setting filters.


Those are pretty high bypass settings on those filter ... so obviously no worries of unwanted bypassing events with that setup.

 

[Gary Allan]

Some Volvo marine diesels are this way too. Some have multiple relief valves.

 

[river_rat]

Yes. The cooler cold-oil-bypass is before the filter, and the high limit pressure regulator is after. VW added the latter in the 1970 and on engines.
Before 1970, both cooler bypass and max oil pressure (to an extent)were handled by one pre-filter spring piston with a dump to the sump if pressure continued to climb.
1970 and later engine cases have the two functions on separate regulators.
My crankcase is the new style and the replacement crankcases all have the dual setup now.

 

[river_rat]

I take part of that back...it's been a long day.
Both regs are after the oil filter.
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Those are pretty high bypass settings on those filter ... so obviously no worries of unwanted bypassing events with that setup.

Ya. I use thick oil. I suppose thats why the Bosch 72150 was the original recommended for the filter kit.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
I take part of that back...it's been a long day.
Both regs are after the oil filter.


Interesting info on how VW changed the pressure regulator setup around 1970.

In your case, with the pressure regulator (and the oil pressure gauge sensor) on the downside of the filter, this means that the oil pump will always be trying to produce the same oil pressure at the main gallery point where the relief valve is.

That means no matter what filter you install (within reason), you should see the same pressure readings on your oil pressure gauge. If a more restrictive oil filter is used, the pump just has to work harder (put out more pressure) to achieve the same pressure in the main gallery (also the relief valve/press sensor) location downstream of the filter.

If you had a pressure gauge on the upside of the filter you would see a higher pump output pressure with a more restrictive filter … but theoretically the same oil pressure downstream where the relief/sensor is located.

 

[river_rat]

I see what your saying, and your right.
It doesn't always run in dump mode though. On hot highway driving or especially after, when it drops below the regulator threshold and and all the oil is going to the bearings is when I can really tell.
FWIW, here's the lube system diagram:

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
I see what your saying, and your right.
It doesn't always run in dump mode though. On hot highway driving or especially after, when it drops below the regulator threshold and and all the oil is going to the bearings is when I can really tell.


Nice oiling system schematic. Yes, when the oil is hot (and the oil cooler is also fully "on-line"), and the pressure relief valve is closed (not in relief), then you would see a different oil pressure reading (sensor after the filter) due to a filter being more or less restrictive than another.

This VW oiling system is setup basically opposite of the typical car system where the pressure relief is before the filter. In that setup, the only time you would see a more restrictive filter or not would be during pressure relief, which is opposite of yours where you see the filter PSID effect out of relief and don't see it when in pressure relief. Interesting for sure.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Nice oiling system schematic.

Thank you. The only mod. is the pump--which is an aftermarket--with the internal divider and in/out ports to allow piping for a remote filter.

The OEM just went straight from the output chamber into the main oil gallery without ever leaving the pump.
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
This VW oiling system is setup basically opposite of the typical car system where the pressure relief is before the filter.

Interesting. I didn't know that. Guess I never gave it much thought as long as the idiot light went off right away.