Oh
no.
Hoe-Lee-Cow -- 0w-20 Forever!!!
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Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I have a 2006 Jetta TDi. It has no fancy schmancy clean exhaust system. Its extremely quiet.
Wow. C'mon Peter, read my postings and give them a little thought. I'm not attacking diesel. It's a good technology, that simply has a different set of strengths and weaknesses as compared to the gas-electric hybrids.
As for the exhaust system, you're one of the last lucky ones. The new cars do have more complex and expensive systems. Let's face it, as good as diesels are in many ways, the untreated exhaust can be pretty nasty, compared to a modern gas engine that's in good health. My point was ONLY that the new models DO have systems that are likely (certainly in the case of MB) to cost every bit as much to replace as a hybrid battery. No free lunches for either side here. Now, I will readily acknowledge that a key distinction is that the new clean diesel exhausts are more a function of government mandate, whereas the hybrid battery is an inherent part of the system. But hey, even if you can cut away the exhaust, you still get back to the basic distinction -- hybrids really shine in more urban driving; diesels on the open road.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I run Mobil 1 TDT in it which is a 5w-40
OK, I'm missing how this connects to this debate. Seriously (not snottily), am I missing something?
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I get 40 mpg all day long stop and go, highway combo figure 65/35 split respectively.
I have no cap, no rotor, no spark plugs and no emission testing I have to do.
Peter, I'm amazed that I have to keep saying this. Your Jetta is a much smaller car than my Camry. Heck, it's much smaller than the Prius my son is now driving. The Camry has almost 102 cubic feet of passenger volume. The Prius has 96. And your Jetta has ONLY 91! And the Jetta is also more than a quarter ton lighter than my TCH. I would seriously hope that a car that small does this well, especially being a diesel. BTW, the EPA (old, overly generous system) for the 2006 TDI Jetta is 30/38 (or 30/37 for the manual). Hmmmm...
EDIT: Oh, I forgot to add. I don't have a cap or rotors either. Nor do I have emissions testing where I live. I do have spark plugs, but only four of them, and Prius or Camry, the whole set can be swapped out in maybe as much as ten minutes. As the plugs are plainly good for ~100k miles, I might have to spend 45 min over the total life of either car doing plugs. Hardly a major burden. . .
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I can run 100% Biodiesel. Heck, I can run Waste vegetable oil if I really wanted to with simply modifications. My emissions at that point would be about nill... and not using anything that wasn't renewable..
Well, to put it a tad bluntly, I don't care. As I repeat all the time, while I do care about the environment, I did not buy either of our hybrids for that purpose. I do commend you, and anyone else who tries, for your efforts to keep your car's emissions to a minimum. FWIW, a year or so ago, I found myself behind an ancient Rabbit diesel, with biodiesel and progressive fuel stickers all over it. Don't know what was in its tank at that moment, but the car gave off the overwhelming smell of a donut shop. Sorta cool I have to admit.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I have all the bells and whistles, plus 10 airbags Dynamic stability control, ABS, A/C. heated seats, moonroof, 6cd awesome sound system and a trunk with a fold down rear seat that will swallow just about anything you can think of. I have full auto up AND down power windows.
OK, I've got all of those, except for the moonroof (which I don't want as I have a long body, and my head always rubs on them), heated seats (yeah, even in FL, I'd take those), and heaven forbid, my auto windows are only auto on the way down. Oh well... OTOH, if I get sleepy, I can pull into a rest area, on a sunny summer day, in my JET BLACK Camry, and nap for twenty minutes with the AC blowing nice cold air, running completely off the traction battery, and burning not a drop of WHATEVER is in the fuel tank. As good a car as your Jetta is (and repeating, I DON'T dispute that), it will NEVER perform that feat for you. You don't realize just how cool (literally) this capability is, until you've enjoyed it for yourself.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I can run down to Orange county in 100+ degree of heat with the A/C on full blast and go about an average of 85-90 mph.
Even the Prius does that just fine. . . Point?
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
And I still get 43 miles to the gallon.
Well, funny that you mentioned that particular figure. Look what I found this morning. The figure you see is significant it that it reflects how the TCH behaves in PURE urban driving, with no highway at all. This is over almost 50 miles of driving since the last fillup. No tricky hypermiling, no neutral coasting (bad in an HSD car anyway), just sound moderate driving making reasonable and safe use of the terrain, and not interfering with other traffic.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
NEVER have I EVER had a problem finding fuel. Much like your battery hype, that is simply a false statement.
Be careful and read and think before you accuse people of making "false statements". My observation was simply that, at least where I live and drive, it seems that only about one in four gas stations actually offers diesel fuel. That's decidedly NOT false, it's, ummmmmm, TRUE. We can quibble about what a "problem" is, but my point is simply that I can drive into ANY filling station without thinking about it. You can't. If you're OK with that, well that's wonderful.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I run my oil for 5K and then change it out. My filter sits on top of the engine, extremely easy to get to.
And. . .
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I have 1/2 the electrical wiring/gizmos to go bad than any other car.
Yep, we've had Toyota hybrids here for almost a decade now, and they're falling out right and left because of all those unreliable systems. . .
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
My resale value is extremely high.
As is mine...
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I can easily expect 250K miles out of this engine.
And I should not see the same?
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I have way fewer things to go wrong that will leave me stranded.
It's a VW. I've owned ONE of those myself. I was not impressed at all with the frequency with which "things" went wrong. I hope you have a good one. . .
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
and lastly, Unless you buy used you are not helping the environment by buying a NEW hybrid. You are simply adding to the mass consumption of raw materials.
Well, I guess you have not been reading my posts, because if you had, you'd see that I bought both our Prius and the Camry USED!!! BTW, ANY car bought new, represents a rather large chunk of natural resources carved brutally from Mother Earth. Your Jetta is not an exception.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
Imagine a smaller diesel in a car that weighs the same as the civic... or perhaps a Toyota Yaris... Ford has one and so does VW.
They get 65 mpg.
I can easily imagine such a thing -- but I don't want to. I don't want a little Jetta or Civic or Yaris. I want extreme mileage, AND a relatively BIG car. Please get back to me when you find another product, irrespective of the drive technology, that offers well over 100 cubic feet of interior while getting Yaris/Civic fuel economy.
I have a 2006 Jetta TDi. It has no fancy schmancy clean exhaust system. Its extremely quiet.
Wow. C'mon Peter, read my postings and give them a little thought. I'm not attacking diesel. It's a good technology, that simply has a different set of strengths and weaknesses as compared to the gas-electric hybrids.
As for the exhaust system, you're one of the last lucky ones. The new cars do have more complex and expensive systems. Let's face it, as good as diesels are in many ways, the untreated exhaust can be pretty nasty, compared to a modern gas engine that's in good health. My point was ONLY that the new models DO have systems that are likely (certainly in the case of MB) to cost every bit as much to replace as a hybrid battery. No free lunches for either side here. Now, I will readily acknowledge that a key distinction is that the new clean diesel exhausts are more a function of government mandate, whereas the hybrid battery is an inherent part of the system. But hey, even if you can cut away the exhaust, you still get back to the basic distinction -- hybrids really shine in more urban driving; diesels on the open road.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I run Mobil 1 TDT in it which is a 5w-40
OK, I'm missing how this connects to this debate. Seriously (not snottily), am I missing something?
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I get 40 mpg all day long stop and go, highway combo figure 65/35 split respectively.
I have no cap, no rotor, no spark plugs and no emission testing I have to do.
Peter, I'm amazed that I have to keep saying this. Your Jetta is a much smaller car than my Camry. Heck, it's much smaller than the Prius my son is now driving. The Camry has almost 102 cubic feet of passenger volume. The Prius has 96. And your Jetta has ONLY 91! And the Jetta is also more than a quarter ton lighter than my TCH. I would seriously hope that a car that small does this well, especially being a diesel. BTW, the EPA (old, overly generous system) for the 2006 TDI Jetta is 30/38 (or 30/37 for the manual). Hmmmm...
EDIT: Oh, I forgot to add. I don't have a cap or rotors either. Nor do I have emissions testing where I live. I do have spark plugs, but only four of them, and Prius or Camry, the whole set can be swapped out in maybe as much as ten minutes. As the plugs are plainly good for ~100k miles, I might have to spend 45 min over the total life of either car doing plugs. Hardly a major burden. . .
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I can run 100% Biodiesel. Heck, I can run Waste vegetable oil if I really wanted to with simply modifications. My emissions at that point would be about nill... and not using anything that wasn't renewable..
Well, to put it a tad bluntly, I don't care. As I repeat all the time, while I do care about the environment, I did not buy either of our hybrids for that purpose. I do commend you, and anyone else who tries, for your efforts to keep your car's emissions to a minimum. FWIW, a year or so ago, I found myself behind an ancient Rabbit diesel, with biodiesel and progressive fuel stickers all over it. Don't know what was in its tank at that moment, but the car gave off the overwhelming smell of a donut shop. Sorta cool I have to admit.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I have all the bells and whistles, plus 10 airbags Dynamic stability control, ABS, A/C. heated seats, moonroof, 6cd awesome sound system and a trunk with a fold down rear seat that will swallow just about anything you can think of. I have full auto up AND down power windows.
OK, I've got all of those, except for the moonroof (which I don't want as I have a long body, and my head always rubs on them), heated seats (yeah, even in FL, I'd take those), and heaven forbid, my auto windows are only auto on the way down. Oh well... OTOH, if I get sleepy, I can pull into a rest area, on a sunny summer day, in my JET BLACK Camry, and nap for twenty minutes with the AC blowing nice cold air, running completely off the traction battery, and burning not a drop of WHATEVER is in the fuel tank. As good a car as your Jetta is (and repeating, I DON'T dispute that), it will NEVER perform that feat for you. You don't realize just how cool (literally) this capability is, until you've enjoyed it for yourself.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I can run down to Orange county in 100+ degree of heat with the A/C on full blast and go about an average of 85-90 mph.
Even the Prius does that just fine. . . Point?
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
And I still get 43 miles to the gallon.
Well, funny that you mentioned that particular figure. Look what I found this morning. The figure you see is significant it that it reflects how the TCH behaves in PURE urban driving, with no highway at all. This is over almost 50 miles of driving since the last fillup. No tricky hypermiling, no neutral coasting (bad in an HSD car anyway), just sound moderate driving making reasonable and safe use of the terrain, and not interfering with other traffic.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
NEVER have I EVER had a problem finding fuel. Much like your battery hype, that is simply a false statement.
Be careful and read and think before you accuse people of making "false statements". My observation was simply that, at least where I live and drive, it seems that only about one in four gas stations actually offers diesel fuel. That's decidedly NOT false, it's, ummmmmm, TRUE. We can quibble about what a "problem" is, but my point is simply that I can drive into ANY filling station without thinking about it. You can't. If you're OK with that, well that's wonderful.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I run my oil for 5K and then change it out. My filter sits on top of the engine, extremely easy to get to.
And. . .
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I have 1/2 the electrical wiring/gizmos to go bad than any other car.
Yep, we've had Toyota hybrids here for almost a decade now, and they're falling out right and left because of all those unreliable systems. . .
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
My resale value is extremely high.
As is mine...
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I can easily expect 250K miles out of this engine.
And I should not see the same?
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
I have way fewer things to go wrong that will leave me stranded.
It's a VW. I've owned ONE of those myself. I was not impressed at all with the frequency with which "things" went wrong. I hope you have a good one. . .
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
and lastly, Unless you buy used you are not helping the environment by buying a NEW hybrid. You are simply adding to the mass consumption of raw materials.
Well, I guess you have not been reading my posts, because if you had, you'd see that I bought both our Prius and the Camry USED!!! BTW, ANY car bought new, represents a rather large chunk of natural resources carved brutally from Mother Earth. Your Jetta is not an exception.
Originally Posted By: peterdaniel
Imagine a smaller diesel in a car that weighs the same as the civic... or perhaps a Toyota Yaris... Ford has one and so does VW.
They get 65 mpg.
I can easily imagine such a thing -- but I don't want to. I don't want a little Jetta or Civic or Yaris. I want extreme mileage, AND a relatively BIG car. Please get back to me when you find another product, irrespective of the drive technology, that offers well over 100 cubic feet of interior while getting Yaris/Civic fuel economy.
Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
I personally hate rechargeable items as weed wackers, blowers, mowers and choose gas over them all the time. Had too many bad experiences with immediate downward spiral of performance and inconsistent performance every time I acquired them. Peterdaniel has the best solution for better MPG. Most diesels are bulletproof, last just about forever, are much more desirable at auto auctions.
This statement reflects a complete and total misunderstanding of the rechargeable battery technology used in the hybrid automobiles. In the Toyotas, the ECU is programmed to constantly control the battery. It manages not only the charge state, but also the charge and discharge rates. And if the battery temp exceeds what is deemed safe, the ECU cuts further and further back on battery use until the temps are again safe.
The idea is that the ECU will not allow conditions that damage the battery to exist. The cheap, tiny distant relatives you use in cameras, radios, and flashlights, and which fail so often, have no such control mechanisms. They rely totally upon the user not to use them improperly. Interestingly, now that I understand (at least partly) how the ECU treats the traction battery, I've tried to simulate that to some degree with rechargeables in my flash unit. And I'd have to say it works. I never charge them all the way up (the Prius and Camry do not allow a Soc over 80%), and I never use them all the way down (the cars never allow SoC below 40% of total capacity). And so on.
Quote:
Peterdaniel has the best solution for better MPG.
This statement alone is similarly silly. Each technology has it's own strengths and weaknesses. If you're a highway-only long range driver, get a diesel. If you do a lot of urban driving, a get a hybrid.
VWs are a lot of things, but bulletproof is not one of them... It's probably a good thing that the TDIs have less electric things than other cars. In my Jetta, if electricity passed through something, it was only a matter of time...
Auction value? Varies with conditions. I have a cousin who works at a Toyota store. They can never get enough used Prii, except when fuel is in the way bottom of a downswing.
I personally hate rechargeable items as weed wackers, blowers, mowers and choose gas over them all the time. Had too many bad experiences with immediate downward spiral of performance and inconsistent performance every time I acquired them. Peterdaniel has the best solution for better MPG. Most diesels are bulletproof, last just about forever, are much more desirable at auto auctions.
This statement reflects a complete and total misunderstanding of the rechargeable battery technology used in the hybrid automobiles. In the Toyotas, the ECU is programmed to constantly control the battery. It manages not only the charge state, but also the charge and discharge rates. And if the battery temp exceeds what is deemed safe, the ECU cuts further and further back on battery use until the temps are again safe.
The idea is that the ECU will not allow conditions that damage the battery to exist. The cheap, tiny distant relatives you use in cameras, radios, and flashlights, and which fail so often, have no such control mechanisms. They rely totally upon the user not to use them improperly. Interestingly, now that I understand (at least partly) how the ECU treats the traction battery, I've tried to simulate that to some degree with rechargeables in my flash unit. And I'd have to say it works. I never charge them all the way up (the Prius and Camry do not allow a Soc over 80%), and I never use them all the way down (the cars never allow SoC below 40% of total capacity). And so on.
Quote:
Peterdaniel has the best solution for better MPG.
This statement alone is similarly silly. Each technology has it's own strengths and weaknesses. If you're a highway-only long range driver, get a diesel. If you do a lot of urban driving, a get a hybrid.
VWs are a lot of things, but bulletproof is not one of them... It's probably a good thing that the TDIs have less electric things than other cars. In my Jetta, if electricity passed through something, it was only a matter of time...
Auction value? Varies with conditions. I have a cousin who works at a Toyota store. They can never get enough used Prii, except when fuel is in the way bottom of a downswing.
A diesel can be run on home made biodiesel, or VWO in a separate tank. A hybrid can be run on homemade electricity stored in a separate tank, too. In heating season, you can run a small water cooled RV generator to charge the batteries, and use the waste heat in your home.
Originally Posted By: ADFD1
. . .
Nicely said! I'd take a diesel over a hybrid any day of the week. They're more reliable, will probably last twice as long, less things to go wrong, and they've been on the road for several decades. Not bashing Hybrids, just sharing my opinions.
AD
See my comments above. Diesels are "more reliable"? Than what? From what I've seen of the hybrids, both from personal use over several years, and the easily available data that's out there, I don't think you can support that statement (assuming it's meant to compare to hybrids) as anything but a bare naked opinion.
. . .
Nicely said! I'd take a diesel over a hybrid any day of the week. They're more reliable, will probably last twice as long, less things to go wrong, and they've been on the road for several decades. Not bashing Hybrids, just sharing my opinions.
AD
See my comments above. Diesels are "more reliable"? Than what? From what I've seen of the hybrids, both from personal use over several years, and the easily available data that's out there, I don't think you can support that statement (assuming it's meant to compare to hybrids) as anything but a bare naked opinion.
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?
M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)
I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?
M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)
I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.
With diesel often selling for 35% more than unleaded in my area, it's pretty hard to justify both the extra up-front cost of a diesel vehicle and fuel. MPG will probably never payback.
ave July 06 Fl edition blackbook sale price at auction on a 08 camry hybrid is a $17,925, 07 is $15,825. They only pull $2,000 more than the xle camry 4 cyl. Prius has horrible resale. ave bb 0n 08 is $16,225 while a 07 is a low $13,725. You might be saving $$ on fuel but you will lose your as5 in resale.
had a 05 mb diesel with 178,000 miles. had more calls and hits on that car in the week it was available than anyone thought possible. had people fighting to buy the car and leaving back up deposits. Happens all the time with diesel trucks. Diesel trucks sell right away while gas sits forever. had a lexus rx400 - can't crack the door on it or get a bid at auction.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?
M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)
I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.
I see thanks,,so no consumption/ticking noises or low oil pressure issues etc??
can you tell me what engines you have tried it in??
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?
M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)
I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.
I see thanks,,so no consumption/ticking noises or low oil pressure issues etc??
can you tell me what engines you have tried it in??
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?
M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)
I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.
I see thanks,,so consumption issues/ticking noises or low oil pressure issues etc??
can you tell me what engines you have tried it in??
Oil consumption in my car (96 Ford Crown Vic 4.6 V8) has been 1 quart in 1100 miles no matter what oil I've had in it (I've been keeping better records recently). I'm 1,100 miles into a run of Mobil 1 10W-30 high Mileage and it's down a full quart already. The Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 I used previously was consumed at the same rate.
My dads car is a 93 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL (3.4L twin dual cam V6 screamer) that had always been run on 10W-30. Oil consumption hasn't gone up, and he tells me that his fuel economy and the smoothness of the engine have. The oil in that one is Mobil Clean 5000 5W-20. Some of his valvetrain rattle has also gone away, and he has commented that his oil pressure is nice and steady and higher than it was before.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?
M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)
I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.
I see thanks,,so consumption issues/ticking noises or low oil pressure issues etc??
can you tell me what engines you have tried it in??
Oil consumption in my car (96 Ford Crown Vic 4.6 V8) has been 1 quart in 1100 miles no matter what oil I've had in it (I've been keeping better records recently). I'm 1,100 miles into a run of Mobil 1 10W-30 high Mileage and it's down a full quart already. The Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 I used previously was consumed at the same rate.
My dads car is a 93 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL (3.4L twin dual cam V6 screamer) that had always been run on 10W-30. Oil consumption hasn't gone up, and he tells me that his fuel economy and the smoothness of the engine have. The oil in that one is Mobil Clean 5000 5W-20. Some of his valvetrain rattle has also gone away, and he has commented that his oil pressure is nice and steady and higher than it was before.
Originally Posted By: joflewbyu2
had a 05 mb diesel with 178,000 miles. had more calls and hits on that car in the week it was available than anyone thought possible. had people fighting to buy the car and leaving back up deposits. Happens all the time with diesel trucks. Diesel trucks sell right away while gas sits forever. had a lexus rx400 - can't crack the door on it or get a bid at auction.
Well again, another warped comparison. IMO, if there's a dog in the HSD family, it's the Lexus RX-400h. Both it, and its genetic twin the HSD Highlander are nice vehicles. But Toyoto/Lex gave into the temptation to price this vehicle at absurd levels, which carries through into the used market.
On the other hand, Prii and HSD Camrys barely sit still when found on the used side at the dealerships. Especially so when they're Toyota Certified Used. You get a nice car with a better-than-new wty. Both of these products move VERY quickly.
had a 05 mb diesel with 178,000 miles. had more calls and hits on that car in the week it was available than anyone thought possible. had people fighting to buy the car and leaving back up deposits. Happens all the time with diesel trucks. Diesel trucks sell right away while gas sits forever. had a lexus rx400 - can't crack the door on it or get a bid at auction.
Well again, another warped comparison. IMO, if there's a dog in the HSD family, it's the Lexus RX-400h. Both it, and its genetic twin the HSD Highlander are nice vehicles. But Toyoto/Lex gave into the temptation to price this vehicle at absurd levels, which carries through into the used market.
On the other hand, Prii and HSD Camrys barely sit still when found on the used side at the dealerships. Especially so when they're Toyota Certified Used. You get a nice car with a better-than-new wty. Both of these products move VERY quickly.
Originally Posted By: Drew2000
With diesel often selling for 35% more than unleaded in my area, it's pretty hard to justify both the extra up-front cost of a diesel vehicle and fuel. MPG will probably never payback.
Oddly enough, the diesel diehards always seem to forget to factor this into their comparisons with the gas-electric hybrids. . .
With diesel often selling for 35% more than unleaded in my area, it's pretty hard to justify both the extra up-front cost of a diesel vehicle and fuel. MPG will probably never payback.
Oddly enough, the diesel diehards always seem to forget to factor this into their comparisons with the gas-electric hybrids. . .
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?
M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)
I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.
I see thanks,,so consumption issues/ticking noises or low oil pressure issues etc??
can you tell me what engines you have tried it in??
Oil consumption in my car (96 Ford Crown Vic 4.6 V8) has been 1 quart in 1100 miles no matter what oil I've had in it (I've been keeping better records recently). I'm 1,100 miles into a run of Mobil 1 10W-30 high Mileage and it's down a full quart already. The Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 I used previously was consumed at the same rate.
My dads car is a 93 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL (3.4L twin dual cam V6 screamer) that had always been run on 10W-30. Oil consumption hasn't gone up, and he tells me that his fuel economy and the smoothness of the engine have. The oil in that one is Mobil Clean 5000 5W-20. Some of his valvetrain rattle has also gone away, and he has commented that his oil pressure is nice and steady and higher than it was before.
Good,so you have 0w20 in your Crown Vic? interesting,and your dad
has good pressure with it in his,hmmm good to hear.
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?
M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)
I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.
I see thanks,,so consumption issues/ticking noises or low oil pressure issues etc??
can you tell me what engines you have tried it in??
Oil consumption in my car (96 Ford Crown Vic 4.6 V8) has been 1 quart in 1100 miles no matter what oil I've had in it (I've been keeping better records recently). I'm 1,100 miles into a run of Mobil 1 10W-30 high Mileage and it's down a full quart already. The Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 I used previously was consumed at the same rate.
My dads car is a 93 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL (3.4L twin dual cam V6 screamer) that had always been run on 10W-30. Oil consumption hasn't gone up, and he tells me that his fuel economy and the smoothness of the engine have. The oil in that one is Mobil Clean 5000 5W-20. Some of his valvetrain rattle has also gone away, and he has commented that his oil pressure is nice and steady and higher than it was before.
Good,so you have 0w20 in your Crown Vic? interesting,and your dad
has good pressure with it in his,hmmm good to hear.
OK, and by the way, why did you diesel diehards feel the need to turn this into a hybrid vs. diesel thread, anyway? The original point was showing an interesting, if isolated, datum point generated right after switching back to 0w-20 oil from a much thicker product. Perhaps I should start hammering on you poor diesel guys for your inability to make good use of solid, low-drag oils. . .
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
OK, and by the way, why did you diesel diehards feel the need to turn this into a hybrid vs. diesel thread, anyway? The original point was showing an interesting, if isolated, datum point generated right after switching back to 0w-20 oil from a much thicker product. Perhaps I should start hammering on you poor diesel guys for your inability to make good use of solid, low-drag oils. . .
when do things ever stay on topic around here.
OK, and by the way, why did you diesel diehards feel the need to turn this into a hybrid vs. diesel thread, anyway? The original point was showing an interesting, if isolated, datum point generated right after switching back to 0w-20 oil from a much thicker product. Perhaps I should start hammering on you poor diesel guys for your inability to make good use of solid, low-drag oils. . .
when do things ever stay on topic around here.
Yeah, good point...
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?
M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)
I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.
I see thanks,,so consumption issues/ticking noises or low oil pressure issues etc??
can you tell me what engines you have tried it in??
Oil consumption in my car (96 Ford Crown Vic 4.6 V8) has been 1 quart in 1100 miles no matter what oil I've had in it (I've been keeping better records recently). I'm 1,100 miles into a run of Mobil 1 10W-30 high Mileage and it's down a full quart already. The Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 I used previously was consumed at the same rate.
My dads car is a 93 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL (3.4L twin dual cam V6 screamer) that had always been run on 10W-30. Oil consumption hasn't gone up, and he tells me that his fuel economy and the smoothness of the engine have. The oil in that one is Mobil Clean 5000 5W-20. Some of his valvetrain rattle has also gone away, and he has commented that his oil pressure is nice and steady and higher than it was before.
Good,so you have 0w20 in your Crown Vic? interesting,and your dad
has good pressure with it in his,hmmm good to hear.
10W-30 in my Crown Vic right now, and that's only because of the extremely limited choices for synthetic High Mileage oil. Seems that it hasn't slowed my consumption at all.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?
M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)
I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.
I see thanks,,so consumption issues/ticking noises or low oil pressure issues etc??
can you tell me what engines you have tried it in??
Oil consumption in my car (96 Ford Crown Vic 4.6 V8) has been 1 quart in 1100 miles no matter what oil I've had in it (I've been keeping better records recently). I'm 1,100 miles into a run of Mobil 1 10W-30 high Mileage and it's down a full quart already. The Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 I used previously was consumed at the same rate.
My dads car is a 93 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL (3.4L twin dual cam V6 screamer) that had always been run on 10W-30. Oil consumption hasn't gone up, and he tells me that his fuel economy and the smoothness of the engine have. The oil in that one is Mobil Clean 5000 5W-20. Some of his valvetrain rattle has also gone away, and he has commented that his oil pressure is nice and steady and higher than it was before.
Good,so you have 0w20 in your Crown Vic? interesting,and your dad
has good pressure with it in his,hmmm good to hear.
10W-30 in my Crown Vic right now, and that's only because of the extremely limited choices for synthetic High Mileage oil. Seems that it hasn't slowed my consumption at all.
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?
M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)
I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.
I see thanks,,so consumption issues/ticking noises or low oil pressure issues etc??
can you tell me what engines you have tried it in??
Oil consumption in my car (96 Ford Crown Vic 4.6 V8) has been 1 quart in 1100 miles no matter what oil I've had in it (I've been keeping better records recently). I'm 1,100 miles into a run of Mobil 1 10W-30 high Mileage and it's down a full quart already. The Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 I used previously was consumed at the same rate.
My dads car is a 93 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL (3.4L twin dual cam V6 screamer) that had always been run on 10W-30. Oil consumption hasn't gone up, and he tells me that his fuel economy and the smoothness of the engine have. The oil in that one is Mobil Clean 5000 5W-20. Some of his valvetrain rattle has also gone away, and he has commented that his oil pressure is nice and steady and higher than it was before.
Good,so you have 0w20 in your Crown Vic? interesting,and your dad
has good pressure with it in his,hmmm good to hear.
10W-30 in my Crown Vic right now, and that's only because of the extremely limited choices for synthetic High Mileage oil. Seems that it hasn't slowed my consumption at all.
Ahh ok, could try M1 10w40HM..but if you have more serious internal issues a oil will not help.
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: daman
Ok got a Q(was going to start my own topic but),,,i too was thinking of trying a 0w20 in my '00 sunfire 2.2l 4 cyl 185,000 miles runs GREAT uses NO oil, now GM recommends 5w30 does anyone see a problem with running a 0w20 AFE M1 of course in this?
M1's 0w20 is at the upper end of a 20w(8.6)vs a 5w30 (11.3)
I've successfully used 5W-20 in 2 mid 90's vehicles that called for 5W-30. My dads car loves the 5W-20.
I see thanks,,so consumption issues/ticking noises or low oil pressure issues etc??
can you tell me what engines you have tried it in??
Oil consumption in my car (96 Ford Crown Vic 4.6 V8) has been 1 quart in 1100 miles no matter what oil I've had in it (I've been keeping better records recently). I'm 1,100 miles into a run of Mobil 1 10W-30 high Mileage and it's down a full quart already. The Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 I used previously was consumed at the same rate.
My dads car is a 93 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme SL (3.4L twin dual cam V6 screamer) that had always been run on 10W-30. Oil consumption hasn't gone up, and he tells me that his fuel economy and the smoothness of the engine have. The oil in that one is Mobil Clean 5000 5W-20. Some of his valvetrain rattle has also gone away, and he has commented that his oil pressure is nice and steady and higher than it was before.
Good,so you have 0w20 in your Crown Vic? interesting,and your dad
has good pressure with it in his,hmmm good to hear.
10W-30 in my Crown Vic right now, and that's only because of the extremely limited choices for synthetic High Mileage oil. Seems that it hasn't slowed my consumption at all.
Ahh ok, could try M1 10w40HM..but if you have more serious internal issues a oil will not help.
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
OK, and by the way, why did you diesel diehards feel the need to turn this into a hybrid vs. diesel thread, anyway? The original point was showing an interesting, if isolated, datum point generated right after switching back to 0w-20 oil from a much thicker product. Perhaps I should start hammering on you poor diesel guys for your inability to make good use of solid, low-drag oils. . .
I guess nobody is really blown away with a 4 cyl medium sedan getting 39 mpg on the highway. After all, 32 mpg in a much nicer Acura Tl with V6 power gets low 30s on the highway all day long. The 4cly Acura TSX with more power gets mid 30s all day long highway driving. Diesel VW Jettas getting even more MPG too.
OK, and by the way, why did you diesel diehards feel the need to turn this into a hybrid vs. diesel thread, anyway? The original point was showing an interesting, if isolated, datum point generated right after switching back to 0w-20 oil from a much thicker product. Perhaps I should start hammering on you poor diesel guys for your inability to make good use of solid, low-drag oils. . .
I guess nobody is really blown away with a 4 cyl medium sedan getting 39 mpg on the highway. After all, 32 mpg in a much nicer Acura Tl with V6 power gets low 30s on the highway all day long. The 4cly Acura TSX with more power gets mid 30s all day long highway driving. Diesel VW Jettas getting even more MPG too.
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