Whats the proper way to tell if a new caliper is needed when replacing pads? Assuming there is no obvious leaking of brake fluid. And when to go for a loaded vs a basic caliper.
new caliper, loaded or unloaded
- Thread starter Donald
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Loaded caliper is just for simple minded 'marketing'. You're not really choosing the quality of your brake pads.
Calipers should be rebuilt with every brake job. But, that type of quality work is long gone.
If its the caliper in the ex-wife's car, it never needs replacing!!!
If it has more then 100k or is more then 5 years old, and you are fond of your life and the vehicle's passengers, then change the calipers.
Calipers should be rebuilt with every brake job. But, that type of quality work is long gone.
If its the caliper in the ex-wife's car, it never needs replacing!!!
If it has more then 100k or is more then 5 years old, and you are fond of your life and the vehicle's passengers, then change the calipers.
Its usually pretty obvious when a caliper needs replaced/rebuilt. If it takes much force to push the piston back or its frozen in place. There could be other reasons stripped holes, broken bleader, worn bushings and the like. But its usually because the piston is stuck or near stuck.
Usually the the pads will be much worse on that wheel as well. (brake drags and wears that side)
Other times the pads will be better on the wheel with the "bad" caliper. (Brake not working at all and causing the other side to do MOST of the work) This is not common as a car in this shape darts wild under heavy braking and is usually fixed before the working wheel wears the pads alot.
I suppose you "could" buy a loaded caliper to fix one side if the other had good pads. BUT I PERSONALLY wouldn't as well as many others wouldn't recomend it. Different friction surfaces could result in different braking on each wheel leading to problems.
Usually the the pads will be much worse on that wheel as well. (brake drags and wears that side)
Other times the pads will be better on the wheel with the "bad" caliper. (Brake not working at all and causing the other side to do MOST of the work) This is not common as a car in this shape darts wild under heavy braking and is usually fixed before the working wheel wears the pads alot.
I suppose you "could" buy a loaded caliper to fix one side if the other had good pads. BUT I PERSONALLY wouldn't as well as many others wouldn't recomend it. Different friction surfaces could result in different braking on each wheel leading to problems.
Well, if you live somewhere where the roads and air are not rife with salt, I think it is possile to go much longer than 100k miles before rebuilding or replacing the calipers. I change/flush brake fluid every 2 years in my cars and have never felt the need to replace a caliper, master cylinder or wheel cylinder before 200k miles.
Now, all bets are off if the fluid is not flushed once in a while.
Now, all bets are off if the fluid is not flushed once in a while.
The loaded caliper also has the mounting bracket with new or re manufactured guide pins, which could have been the problem rather than the actual caliper. Although the actual caliper seems much more likely.
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
Well, if you live somewhere where the roads and air are not rife with salt, I think it is possile to go much longer than 100k miles before rebuilding or replacing the calipers. I change/flush brake fluid every 2 years in my cars and have never felt the need to replace a caliper, master cylinder or wheel cylinder before 200k miles.
Now, all bets are off if the fluid is not flushed once in a while.
Well, if you live somewhere where the roads and air are not rife with salt, I think it is possile to go much longer than 100k miles before rebuilding or replacing the calipers. I change/flush brake fluid every 2 years in my cars and have never felt the need to replace a caliper, master cylinder or wheel cylinder before 200k miles.
Now, all bets are off if the fluid is not flushed once in a while.
I personally have never heard of replacing calipers as a preventative maintenance, at a set mileage or time.
In Toronto they literally coat the rod in salt during winter season, all my previous cars had 250 to 300k KM on them and calipers worked just fine.
But I inspect the braking system at every tire rotation. At every pad change all dust seals are inspected for damage and slider pins are properly lubricated. The caliper itself is a huge chunk of iron, there is nothing that can go wrong with it.
The only reason I would replace a caliper is if the caliper or a slider pin was so rusted in, that it couldn't be removed without inflicting damage to the mating surfaces.
In Toronto they literally coat the rod in salt during winter season, all my previous cars had 250 to 300k KM on them and calipers worked just fine.
But I inspect the braking system at every tire rotation. At every pad change all dust seals are inspected for damage and slider pins are properly lubricated. The caliper itself is a huge chunk of iron, there is nothing that can go wrong with it.
The only reason I would replace a caliper is if the caliper or a slider pin was so rusted in, that it couldn't be removed without inflicting damage to the mating surfaces.
Are you trying to tell me that wild side to side slewing under braking isn't part of the excitement of driving? Once in a while it's fun to drive a wreck waiting to happen as long as you aren't there when it does.
I fall somewhere between undummy and soldier man. While I have never know a caliper casting to need replaced, the rubber parts age and wear. The pistons will eventually corrode. One day when you push the piston back in, it will have a glob of rust on it and it will freeze or leak. When I worked in a brake shop, many times somebody would buy a set of pads and nothing else. They would be back the next day wanting to know how to get brake fluid off the brand new pads because the caliper that worked fine before leaked. Rebuilding/replacing the caliper with each set of pads insures that never happens. Let it go until it sticks or leaks often means the piston is shot. You used to be able to buy repair kits cheap. Replacing the seal and boot and slathering everything good with Sil-Glyde would keep a caliper going forever. Any more a kit costs almost as much as a rebuilt caliper, and is harder to find. I was actually able to buy a rebuilt master cylinder for my truck cheaper than a kit. The only indication I had that I should replace the MC was that it was 31 years old. I replaced the brake hoses that were only about 15 years old too. I like replacing things at a time and place of my choosing.
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
Well, if you live somewhere where the roads and air are not rife with salt, I think it is possile to go much longer than 100k miles before rebuilding or replacing the calipers. I change/flush brake fluid every 2 years in my cars and have never felt the need to replace a caliper, master cylinder or wheel cylinder before 200k miles.
Now, all bets are off if the fluid is not flushed once in a while.
It is true.
I live in Florida, and find that many cars that spent their whole life here often get 150,000 miles from the factory calipers, unless they were phenolic piston calipers.
Now drum brake wheel cylinders never seem to go beyond 60,000 miles. Replacing them at every shoe change seems smart to me.
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
Well, if you live somewhere where the roads and air are not rife with salt, I think it is possile to go much longer than 100k miles before rebuilding or replacing the calipers. I change/flush brake fluid every 2 years in my cars and have never felt the need to replace a caliper, master cylinder or wheel cylinder before 200k miles.
Now, all bets are off if the fluid is not flushed once in a while.
It is true.
I live in Florida, and find that many cars that spent their whole life here often get 150,000 miles from the factory calipers, unless they were phenolic piston calipers.
Now drum brake wheel cylinders never seem to go beyond 60,000 miles. Replacing them at every shoe change seems smart to me.
so when the pads wear oddly, the ones I am replacing, the inner pad had plenty of pad left (over 1/4"), the outer pad was gone, not even the metal mounting plate was there, and the caliper was leaking, I just replaced the caliper and am hoping it was not also the sliding pin(s).
Originally Posted By: Donald
so when the pads wear oddly, the ones I am replacing, the inner pad had plenty of pad left (over 1/4"), the outer pad was gone, not even the metal mounting plate was there, and the caliper was leaking, I just replaced the caliper and am hoping it was not also the sliding pin(s).
I believe that typical, Average-Joe floating calipers will wear the inside pad first when things start to seize up. Pulling the outer pad "in" requires more things to slide and move which can get gooped up. Wearing the outer first might mean your old inner *pad* was simply jammed or incorrectly installed (?) and there was nothing wrong with your caliper.
so when the pads wear oddly, the ones I am replacing, the inner pad had plenty of pad left (over 1/4"), the outer pad was gone, not even the metal mounting plate was there, and the caliper was leaking, I just replaced the caliper and am hoping it was not also the sliding pin(s).
I believe that typical, Average-Joe floating calipers will wear the inside pad first when things start to seize up. Pulling the outer pad "in" requires more things to slide and move which can get gooped up. Wearing the outer first might mean your old inner *pad* was simply jammed or incorrectly installed (?) and there was nothing wrong with your caliper.
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: Donald
so when the pads wear oddly, the ones I am replacing, the inner pad had plenty of pad left (over 1/4"), the outer pad was gone, not even the metal mounting plate was there, and the caliper was leaking, I just replaced the caliper and am hoping it was not also the sliding pin(s).
I believe that typical, Average-Joe floating calipers will wear the inside pad first when things start to seize up. Pulling the outer pad "in" requires more things to slide and move which can get gooped up. Wearing the outer first might mean your old inner *pad* was simply jammed or incorrectly installed (?) and there was nothing wrong with your caliper.
The caliper was dripping brake fluid however.
Originally Posted By: Donald
so when the pads wear oddly, the ones I am replacing, the inner pad had plenty of pad left (over 1/4"), the outer pad was gone, not even the metal mounting plate was there, and the caliper was leaking, I just replaced the caliper and am hoping it was not also the sliding pin(s).
I believe that typical, Average-Joe floating calipers will wear the inside pad first when things start to seize up. Pulling the outer pad "in" requires more things to slide and move which can get gooped up. Wearing the outer first might mean your old inner *pad* was simply jammed or incorrectly installed (?) and there was nothing wrong with your caliper.
The caliper was dripping brake fluid however.
Originally Posted By: Donald
The caliper was dripping brake fluid however.
OK, maybe nothing wrong except THAT.
The caliper was dripping brake fluid however.
OK, maybe nothing wrong except THAT.
So now my car has my curiosity. I could hear a grinding sound in front R brakes and by the time I got to them the caliper was leaking and I found (as mentioned above) inner pad looked OK, outer pad gone.
So within a week of fixing front R brakes, the front L brakes started making the grinding noise and the reservoir was low. I looked at the caliper and it also appears to be leaking. Is there some connection with waiting till your brakes make a grinding noise and the caliper starting to leak?
So within a week of fixing front R brakes, the front L brakes started making the grinding noise and the reservoir was low. I looked at the caliper and it also appears to be leaking. Is there some connection with waiting till your brakes make a grinding noise and the caliper starting to leak?
Originally Posted By: Donald
So now my car has my curiosity. I could hear a grinding sound in front R brakes and by the time I got to them the caliper was leaking and I found (as mentioned above) inner pad looked OK, outer pad gone.
So within a week of fixing front R brakes, the front L brakes started making the grinding noise and the reservoir was low. I looked at the caliper and it also appears to be leaking. Is there some connection with waiting till your brakes make a grinding noise and the caliper starting to leak?
Yes. Sometimes the piston has a taper to it so the the further it comes out, the less strongly the seal contacts it.
And in some cases when someone puts off brake work for too long, the piston pops out and fluid comes shooting out the bore. I saw this once where a truck was off-roaded all the time and never saw a mechanic in a long time. The pads went metal to metal, scraped 1/2 the iron off the brake rotors, and it was a huge disaster.
So now my car has my curiosity. I could hear a grinding sound in front R brakes and by the time I got to them the caliper was leaking and I found (as mentioned above) inner pad looked OK, outer pad gone.
So within a week of fixing front R brakes, the front L brakes started making the grinding noise and the reservoir was low. I looked at the caliper and it also appears to be leaking. Is there some connection with waiting till your brakes make a grinding noise and the caliper starting to leak?
Yes. Sometimes the piston has a taper to it so the the further it comes out, the less strongly the seal contacts it.
And in some cases when someone puts off brake work for too long, the piston pops out and fluid comes shooting out the bore. I saw this once where a truck was off-roaded all the time and never saw a mechanic in a long time. The pads went metal to metal, scraped 1/2 the iron off the brake rotors, and it was a huge disaster.
Lot of times,it is better to get the loaded caliper due to froze up slides.GM fullsive vans and trucks,S10 Blazers,GMC S15 Jimmys and the S10s/S15s pickups are this way with a rear disc brake set up,froze up slides.Also do not ever use the new copper washers that come with a reman caliper,they do not seal very well and leak.Reuse the old ones instead which seal up better.
Originally Posted By: wafrederick1
...Also do not ever use the new copper washers that come with a reman caliper,they do not seal very well and leak.Reuse the old ones instead which seal up better.
I bet you'll catch some flack for that statement.
But I will say, on older Mopars, the washers that come with currently available calipers are about half the thickness of the factory pieces. There are cases where the banjo bolt bottoms out before the washer is crushed sufficiently and you have leaking.
...Also do not ever use the new copper washers that come with a reman caliper,they do not seal very well and leak.Reuse the old ones instead which seal up better.
I bet you'll catch some flack for that statement.
But I will say, on older Mopars, the washers that come with currently available calipers are about half the thickness of the factory pieces. There are cases where the banjo bolt bottoms out before the washer is crushed sufficiently and you have leaking.
Well I replaced the other front caliper and again (but opposite) there was only an outer pad in good shape, the inner pad was gone altogether. The piston had been gouging against the rotor and had maybe a 1/3" gouged area in it and the boot was all ripped up. Thus why it was leaking. And only one of the two caliper pins was sliding. I guess the non sliding pin caused the inner pad to do all the work. But still its odd that one side had a problem and leaking caliper a week or two after the other side.
Old thread but what the heck. Need to do a brake job on the truck soon. Looking at prices, it is just as cost-effective to buy a kit with remanufactures calipers at rock auto.com and replace the calipers while I'm at it. First time on the truck.
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