05 Chevy Duramax with severe copper

[White_Buffalo]

Hi everyone, been a while since I've been on this awesome site. I need to start spending some more time here.

I would like to get your input on high copper readings on a '05 Duramax. The first oil analysis (10/26/07) was on whichever oil the dealer put in when the customer had it serviced. The most recent oil analysis is with 7,000 miles on Schaeffer's series 7000 15W-40. The copper dropped from 256 to 183 after changing to Schaeffer's but it is still in the severe range. High copper readings from possible copper fittings in the oil cooler like on the CAT motors - or am I off base?

 

[White_Buffalo]

Just to clarify the latest oil sample (2/14/08) was with approx. 7000 miles on Schaeffer's series 7000 15W-40, and the first oil sample was from an unknown brand. I know the report doesn't reflect this but it is an error. The copper dropped about 25% after switching to Schaeffer's and at least the copper is moving in a positive direction. Oil was changed at time of sample to Schaeffer's series 7000 15W-40. Will sample again at 5K.

Rich

 

[TDI's RULE]

Hey White Buffalo, I am just down the raod from you in Wichita Falls with a 2002 Duramax. When you send in a sample make sure you give lab all needed numbers such as type of oil and miles on oil for sampling. It seems like your still riding high on copper with the number of miles on your D/max.
Also, I am finding curious and not in the best of ways, your Iron and lead, but where is the reading on tin? Iron by itself isn't a problem, however in the presence of tin and lead, you have some wear going.

 

[salesrep]

Copper did come down. W/O lead or iron up I would not be too concerned YET. Shortening the oil change and monitoring as you state is a smart way to go for now. You may see the copper drop substantially next time around. The oil itself held up very well.
Hope it turns out to be benign.

 

[White_Buffalo]

Thanks for the replies. This is a friends truck in San Antonio and he is getting deployed soon. Just would like to help him get this bugger straight before leaving this summer. Truck pulls the 32' 5th wheel fine, just bugs the heck out of us with the high copper. I wonder if we should shorten the next drain interval down to 3K. What do you think?

FWIW, He is anal about filling in every bit of info on every scrap of paper, so I think the lab messed this one up....

 

[salesrep]

Probably a very good idea, if for no other reason, peace of mind.

 

[White_Buffalo]

Almost a year later and anothe UOA. The truck sat idle for approx. 6 months while he was deployed to Iraq. Just took the sample and changed the oil at the same time. Running Schaeffer's series 9000 5W-40. Talked with Schaeffer's lab and they suspect Copper Core Leaching. ANyone hav any other input?

 

[D-Roc]

I've been over on thedieselplace.com and that's a common thing with Duramax diesels. Try asking either dnewton3 or Arkapigdiesel on this site for more input. They have Duramax trucks and would have better info I'm sure.

 

[TDI's RULE]

White Buffalo, I got this from Amsoil, via Cat in regards to copper showing up in oil analysis. I too have a high historical value in the copper dept on my truck. Changing oil to different brand can according to Cat bring on a "new" high in copper.
CHanging oil filter(s) will lower copper number, not remove it.
I think of it this way.. my oil cooler is very clean!

CATERPILLAR-HIGH COPPER




Per Caterpillar, high levels of copper found in oil analysis are a result of engine cooler core “leaching”. The zinc additive in diesel motor oils reacts with the copper cooler core tubes at high oil temperatures. This chemical reaction results in copper oxidation products forming on the surface of the tubes and then coming off into the oil as it washes over and around the tubes. Heat is a catalyst to this chemical reaction- the higher the oil temperature the greater the rate of oxidation and the longer the reaction process is sustained. This does not cause any damage to the cooler core, or to the engine. However, you will see the copper reading elevate to over 100 PPM. Copper is not a particulate in this case but is in solution in the oil. The PPM will start relatively low and increase over 100 PPM and stay at high levels for several intervals, and then return to normal. During the oxidation process, a hard film forms on the tube surfaces exhibiting the appearance of clear varnish. Changes in operating temperatures, and /or changing oil brands can chemically disrupt this film and begin the oxidative leaching processes again. This can occur in any system with a cooler core: Diesel or gasoline engines, Transmissions or Hydraulic systems.




SOURCE: Stavely Fluid Analysis, courtesy of Caterpillar Inc.

 

[White_Buffalo]

Thanks man! I saved a copy of a similar response from CAT about 6 months agao and I could not find it after moving. Thank you for posting it.