healthcare reform is coming

[digitalSniperX1]

tiny bit of useful argument? how so?

How is that a philosphical debate is a "tiny argument"?

This has nothing to do with pointing out the obvious.
This however does...

Tempest who is constantly attacked for his philosophical point of view endures (while maintining generally dignified responses) Gary's (and now other's) constant subtle derisions and negative innuendo.

So get real.

Oh, by the way, I'm curious to know.... how're the cooks in the militia doing? They're apparently feeding you well.

 

[Gary Allan]

Tempest and I have a long standing opposition to each others philosophical view on humanity. He's views it from the top down, while I look from the bottom up.

Both of us are in the exact same foxhole and both of us are armed to the teeth and fully willing to defend our position. Where we differ is whom the enemy is. We see different precursors to cause and effect. While he is outraged by those in dysfunction and resents one dime coping with them, I look at those in power as making too many dysfunctional people in such abundance due to their seeking of gain.

Our concepts, in a vacuum, of "individual rights" never EVER had some unspoken requirement that it was "at the cost of any and all others pursuit of happiness". That is, it was intended as unleashing of the individual to reach his highest potential. It was not intended as a formula for the subjugation of others or the depriving of others in the exercise. It was not intended or conceived as a competition for all that there is. It was intended to put no predetermined limits upon the individual.

..but to say that it fully endorsed the abandonment of any sense of social sensibility is totally voiding oneself of any social sense at all. It's saying that you really could care less who you "kick to the curb" if it means that you're going to end up with "more". That there is absolutely no humanity... beyond what those who have managed to attain "nobility", grant to those of lower station.

I think that some have corrupted even this dystopian concept to the point of deriving joy in seeking the opportunity to deny whomever they can "humane" anything ...and seek out and support modalities to enhance that denial ..and it's always at a profit.

One is opportunity to achieve.
The other is enabling those to achieve nobility to deny others benefits of the society and sequester it for themselves at society's expense.

I think everyone can see the difference.

 

[oilyriser]

Changes in diet and lifestyle would be an example of health care reform. The proposed changes in the US amount to mandatory medical insurance under a government controlled monopoly which is oriented towards disease and providing an endless stream of paying customers for the disease industry.

 

[Gary Allan]

What does the current "one ended" cartel system provide now? We've got billions invested in life extension ..but very little spent on life enhancement. That is, we'll keep you alive for 5 more minutes ..at a price.

Edit: Sure we've managed and do manage to correct some defects in people of younger ages, but I've yet to see medicine turning the aging process from 40-60 look like the aging process from 30-40. That is still left to the individual ..and we typically always fail. That is, there has yet to be a fountain of youth created by either the medical or pharmaceutical industry.

 

[oilyriser]

The goal is to extract as much from you as possible while you're alive, and try as hard as possible to discourage you from raising kids, since they aren't taxable income generators for quite some time.

I was watching a child play a video game the other day and noticed how it was giving the impression that everyone is out to get you. This fits in perfectly with the social isolation model of economic growth -- divide society into smaller and smaller units, and charge a transaction fee for any interaction.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: oilyriser
The goal is to extract as much from you as possible while you're alive, and try as hard as possible to discourage you from raising kids, since they aren't taxable income generators for quite some time.


Oz raised the retirement age for my generation from 60 to 65 around 7-8 years ago, and 67 last week.

Heard for the first time on the radio Saturday.

"20 years ago, Men lived on average through 12 years of retirement...this has grown to 19"

Now, it's 12 again.

 

[Gary Allan]

Same here. I would have thought that they would have sensibly managed it in a "those born after THIS day" will not be able to collect until they're 67 years old ..but as it sits, they can just put the finish line out as far as they like. Meanwhile, all of your thrust of life has been to work until you reach 65 so you can quit working and afford to live.

It's kinda a bait and switch thing.

 

[Cutehumor]

Social Security says my retirement age is July 28,2044

 

[Gary Allan]

(From Commando as (he)Arnie held "Sully" over the great abyss with one arm)

Arnie: Hey, Cutehumor, remember when I said I would retire you in 2044?

Cutehumor: Yeah..yeah, you did. You're a nice guy

Arnie: I l-i-e-d

Cutehumor: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[stockrex]

stuff-in-loaded-diapers! with ma bad genes i probably won't make it to 67 #$%^&!
the age is for social security etc. one should be able to "retire" when one please and start to draw from tax def accounts (401k etc), but with current laws, they ding ya for taking out money.
no offense to any profession, the current healthcare cost structure and the intense focus on profit for the non-profit religion based healthcare chains is NOT sustainable just like the big 3 in detroit.
the pharma industry is not behind, they will whine and cry if you try to limit price but more than willing to spend billions on ads.
wow, ads for prescription drugs, isn't your doc supposed to prescribe the BEST bleeping med for you? or does he/she go by one with the most catchy ad?

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: digitalSniperX1
"you don't like the thought of helping people, do you?"


This kind of comment makes such discussions almost impossible.

He's not of that mindset man. He's just not of the mindset that all power resides in the hands of the govt and he's of the realization that when it does, it places limits on freedom and creates the entitlement mindset.

So it's best to not poke at others' character like that because quite honestly you're the one who comes off looking badly.


righto, ...

so freedom lets people die because they are less privileged?

i may remind you that having a job, in the first instance, is a privilege. not a right.

we all have the right to life though.

compassion for fellow humans does not equal "all power in the hands of the state".

is this why people get discovered frozen dead in their homes because they couldn't pay the power bill?

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: digitalSniperX1
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: digitalSniperX1

So it's best to not poke at others' character like that


"That statement speaks volumes. It pretty much sums you up."

LOL, he openly wishes ill will on others and you equate that on as an attack on his character. Not only that time but repeatedly he's done that.

No assumption as to how he thinks or feels is required.

Now, I don't know why I waste time on pointing out the obvious but I suppose it's my curiosity at work.




excuse me... "openly wishes ill will on others.."

show me... please...

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: stockrex
wow, ads for prescription drugs, isn't your doc supposed to prescribe the BEST bleeping med for you? or does he/she go by one with the most catchy ad?


According to the sales friend I know, they go with those who give out the most free meals and promote coupons for the patients. The patients though, hey, there's a coupon, so I better use it and the doc is helping me out.

Only to find out that a different drug that cost 1/10 as much will do just as good when their bio-chemistry majored daughters told them.

 

[Shannow]

PandaBear.

Familial experience here.

Had a cousin that worked as a drug pusher for human drugs, and her brother in law worked for exactly the same company, selling veterinary drugs.

She drove a company issued BMW...he drove a company issued Ford Falcon Station Wagon (white).
She had an expense account, and would provide antipasto platters to overworked GPs while presenting in their lunch breaks...he got to provide his own lunch, and walk through horse turds.
She got to invite GPs to resort centres to "present new findings on the drugs that are available"...he got to travel all the rural areas, selling to farmers and vets (note horse faeces).
She was able to buy a house in the most desirable suburb...he could scarcely afford the rent within a reasonable commute.

And the sad part is that the drugs were often exactly the same stuff, produced on exactly the same production lines, but pressed into different shapes/colours.

And it's illegal for humans to consume, or offer to humans, the animal version of exactly the same chemical.

Sure sounds like a "market" to me.

 

[crinkles]

shannow, our vet confirmed to me that many of the animal medications are actually medicines that were intended for human use originally.

our dog got painkillers that were incredible at ELIMINATING pain yet was not addictive like morphine etc.

drug company decided to sell it as vet medicine due to the prohibitive licensing/etc costs.

 

[Shannow]

non addictive ?

Then what's the use of THAT as a painkiller ?

 

[crinkles]

exactly!


my FIL breeds dogs and he sometimes gave my BIL dog anti biotics to clear his acne when he was a teenager... my wife always refused...

 

[oilyriser]

Having a right to life means your own life, for as long as it lasts. You have no right to be kept alive at other's expense, even if they have more than you. That is stealing.

 

[Shannow]

oilyriser, then there's a right to "trespass", as there should be no right to property if all have an equal right to live.

 

[Silk]

I'm pretty sure our new Government will ''engineer'' things to enable them to partly privatise our health care system - they tried it last time they were in power,and as an employer at that time it was extra time and expense I didn't need.

I don't want to get involved in discussing our system - but individuals and businesses both learn to scam the system,and so become dependent on it.

I have worked 40 years without claiming anything.I have to pay for my hernia operation myself...but tomorrow I pick up my 2 new hearing aids supplied for free.I'll take them,even though I don't consider I have a hearing problem,but I really do have a hernia problem! My hearing loss and hernia are both repetitive strain injuries,starting a long time ago,and both can't really be considered an industrial ''accident''.

But the hearing industry has at some time been able to make a case for workplace hearing loss,the ignorance of workers,safety issues etc - and now have a cash cow to milk.It has cost me nothing but a few 15 minute appointments...and I get hearing aids to sit in the draw worth several thousand dollars of tax payers money (mine I reckon,so I'll take it)That's how selfish you get in a welfare society.

But my REAL problem gets ignored!